Finland

[JFalk68]

Anyway to mod them so they are more fun to play?

They have no leaders and I would like to add some to their empty pool. They also earn 2pp a turn and that is not nearly enough to even upgrade or build up their army. Do they get better when the Winter War starts by event happenings?

[doomtrader]

They will get something better with time, also when the Winter War starts there is a chance for supplies from other countries.

If you are thinking about some commanders, share your opinion, as we might think about adding them to the patch.

[JFalk68]

I have an old copy of Winter War by Ballantine Books somewhere around here, I'll dig it out and check out the commanders and leaders. If not google and wiki should work

Ok, I looked up a few here my list for Finnish leaders

Marhshal Mannerheim- overall commander of Finnish forces, sort of like Edward Smigly-Rydz but better imo
Harald Öhquist-Lieutenant General, he was the commander on the Eastern side of the Isthmus. A solid leader and commander of the II Army Corps
Erik Heinrichs-Another fine leader, he was commander of the III Army Corps
Karl Lennart Oesch-He started out as Chief of the General Staff but showed his merit as the the commander of the Coastal Group when they slowed the Soviet advance

So there is 4, the overall commander and and 3 able generals

[doomtrader]

JFalk68, we of course can dig for some of them too, so please if you found somebody who you think is worth to be add, please remember how many of the commaders other countries have.

[Mike Parker]

Doomtrader,
 
There was a General, I believe he was called "Mannerheim" but I could be misremembering the name.  Anyway he was a highly respected Finnish General.  He should definatelybe in the game!  And you should maybe allow the Finns some level 2 or level 3 divisions to represent the elite ski-trained divisions the Finns fielded that gave the Soviet forces heck!

[Hard Sarge]

pick or chose, not sure how "good" these guys should be but

Army Commander(he was a good one)
Gustaf Mannerheim

Corps Commanders at start of attack on Russia

Paavo Talvela
Voldemar Oinonen
Woldermar Hagglund
Taavetti Laatikainen
Erik Heinrichs
Lennart Oesch
Jarl Kundquist

later commanders
Harald Ohquist
Hjalmar Siilasvuo
Ernst Lagus
Aane Blick
Einar Makinen
Antero Svensson
Kustaa Tapola
Iimari Martola


don't think you want/need all of them, but you can pick some from that list

[JFalk68]

Wow, you guys are fast! By the time I edited my original post you had all these looked up. WTG Hard Sarge

I was tempted to look in HOI2, there should be a template in there as well lol.

[doomtrader]

Mannerheim indeed seems to be reasonable, I'll ask research does the others fit to the scheme.

[Hard Sarge]

well, think it depends on how many you want/think should be in

the Fin's were some tuff fighters, and should have some good leaders

biggest hassle with them, is nobody wrote alot of books about any of them, so most are overlooked, unknown

(JFalk, when you are a Alpha/Beta tester on a number of games, you tend to get some good data stored away)

[Severian]

I'll check that and 3 or 4 Finnish generals including marshall Mannerheim will be added

[willgamer]

ORIGINAL: JFalk68

Anyway to mod them so they are more fun to play?

I guess everybodies mileage varies, but I took control of Finland after the USSR declared war on them.

In my case, playing on nomal, I defeated all USSR troops in Finland and took Lenningrad to boot. [8D]

IIRC, Finland got 2 or 3 major (for Finland) gifts from events that made it all possible.

So I thought it was fun! [:D][:D][:D]

[willgamer]

ORIGINAL: Severian

I'll check that and 3 or 4 Finnish generals including marshall Mannerheim will be added

Honestly I think Finland may be overpowered already when they receive sizeable gifts upon going to war.

You may want to look at toning this down. [8|]

[doomtrader]

Honestly I think Finland may be overpowered already when they receive sizeable gifts upon going to war

I'll check that

[Tordenskiold]

Attacking Finland by USSR in may 1940, I had absolutely no trouble crushing them. The enormous amount of PP's available to USSR did it very easy. Finland had at that time no units above strength 2 as far as I remember. I think other elements have to be brought in to handle such special things as the Winterwar when David did beat Goliat. This I have tried to describe in another thread.

[Mike Parker]

Of the dozen times I have played the game long enough to see through the Finland event, EVERY TIME FINLAND HAS LOST.  Twice it wasn't a loss so much as they just ceded the land, twice when I played Russia, not only did they lose, but I continued and took the whole country.  The other times it was the AI, but every time Finland eventually gve in, I have not seen an AI Russia just decide to keep fighting.
 
In no way is Finland over-powered, the Fins did lose the winter war, but after a hard fought campaign.  And once the Eastern front went hot again.. well the Fins did ALOT better than they can do in ToW.

[Hard Sarge]

in my currect game, the AI Russians, just walked all over Finland, stopped when the got to the Cap (don't know why)

so AI vs AI, it didn't look too strong to me

maybe player controlled ?

[Anraz]

Lets search for proper solution for Finland! We can do several things to help Finland, starting with change of basic combat effectiveness of the country.

[Hard Sarge]

well, adding some Leaders and upping the Eff sounds like they should help

[Mike Parker]

I would do all of that plus some OOB changes.
 
I would remove three of the Beginning Infantry units given to the Fins, in their place I would do the following
 
One Level 1 Motorized Division
Two Level 2 Infantry Divisions (to represent the elite ski divisions)
One Level 1 Air Division at strength 1
 
I would include an event once the winter war is concluded to have a level 2 German Infantry Division placed in Finland without any movement points (frozen) and to be unfrozen once Finland joins the Axis.
 
 

[willgamer]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

in my currect game, the AI Russians, just walked all over Finland, stopped when the got to the Cap (don't know why)

so AI vs AI, it didn't look too strong to me

maybe player controlled ?

The 'player controlled' is what I'm reporting a possibly overpowered.

I have no doubt AI controlled Finland can be easily defeated by either AI or human players. [:D]

My problem is that (on normal), when the USSR started the fight, I took over Finland. I started the game as Axis and provided no PPs or other benefits from Germany to Finland. I just wanted to play a mini-game in Finland, you might say.

I was able to defeat probably 20-30 Soviet units and took Lenningrad, Murmansk and that other northern Soviet city to boot. [X(]

The main weakness was that the Soviets advanced to aggressively and were subject to encirclement time after time. It became a game of who could encircle who and the Finns can build a lot of divisions with the gifted PPs.

Also, the Finns can take advantage of strat moving a division, then upgrading to a corps next turn making remote cities almost impossible to take.

It's the boost of 2 large gifts that makes this possible for the human player to do.

My view is that even a very strong human play should lose as Finland on normal and above. [8D]