Japanese DDs and TBs

[Historiker]

I'm kind this time... [;)]

[Historiker]

Fixed DDs:
Akizuki: Escort out of enemy gunrange = CV escort
Asashiro: Maybe SCTF escort because of many torp and good range
Fubukis: SCTF Escort
Hatsuharu: rather CV escort because of range
Kagero: SCTF Escort
Matsu: late war DDs with bad data. Range not too long, SLOW, armement also not impressive.
Shimakaze: Impressive Torpedoes but long range also. So CV escort that can protect against SCTF.
Shiratsuyu: Dito! Good fuel efficiancy, rather CV escort.
Tachibana: Too slow. Escort for the old BBs (if left) as good ASW
Yugumo: SCTF

For me, that's 33 Destroyers (Akizuki and Hatsuharu) only for CV escort. That should be enough - as soon as the Akizukis are finished.

[Historiker]

Kamikaze: Range way too short for anything but brown water operations.
I really don't like them getting under 30kn which means no 9hex. Converting them to E has no benefit except loosing AA and torpedoes - so defenitly no E. THis leaves DD or APD. I tend to use them as DD in short distant areas like the Solomons. Other DDs are more usefull so why risk them in a Guadalcanal campaign?
=> expendable DD for surface action especially PT-hunting

Minekaze: The same!
=> expendable DD

Momi:
Upgrades automatically to an E. APD means just 18kn left. Unacceptable for me. Decide what the need is. Either no upgrade and use for short legged SCTF or upgrade to E for fast short ranged escort missions (like Carrier back to the front from repair).

Momo:
Quite useless anyway.
=> expendable DD for PT-hunting (better not against DDs and bigger) and later as Escort in the rear area.

Otori:
Upgrade and use for SCTF

Tomozuru:
Like Otori

Wakatake:
Upgrade to APD. The E would be good too, but the only APD running faster than 29, so defenitly APD!
=> 7 APD

[Shark7]

Asashiro? Shouldn't that be Asashio? Possible typo there?

[Historiker]

Jep, a type. But I wonder why anyone seems to ignore this. It took me hours to list all ships including the TBs and DDs.

[USSAmerica]

If I weren't an AFB, I would find it very useful.  [:D]
 
If I were a JFB, I might still be trying to digest so much detail that I didn't have room in my brain to think about these guys yet.  [:)]
 
If I weren't running on 4 hours of sleep, with Benedryl in my system for allergies to make me even more sleepy, I might be able to post a coherent thought.  [>:]

[Mynok]

Do the Yugumo's still have an air-detection radar set?

One thing I've always had to deal with is the fact that there are simply not enough DDs to be too picky about what escorts your AC task forces. Ideally they will have good ASW values and good AA values as well as range, but anything is better than nothing.

[Mike Solli]

I agree with you, Mynok.  ASW, AA and endurance are the important things for Air TFs.  Also, as you say, anything is better than nothing.  KB gets the pick of the litter, then Surface TFs, then the remainder is for the merchants.

[Historiker]

@Mynok
I guess so, haven't looked at it yet - other computer. Nearly anything with guns seems to recieve a radar here in AE, even (some) PBs!

[Historiker]

One thing I've always had to deal with is the fact that there are simply not enough DDs to be too picky about what escorts your AC task forces. Ideally they will have good ASW values and good AA values as well as range, but anything is better than nothing.

I just wanted to share my conclusions as THE Mike Solli (the man with the calculator watch) declared this is a problem [;)]

Also:
There are a lot of escorts this time, especially by the conversions. So I don't intend to use my DDs as ASW groups, they will be only used for big ship escort and SCTF - especially as many ships have better ASW values then them and there's no need to put DDs deliberately in front of SS IMO.

[Mike Solli]

LOL Everything is a problem when it comes to Japanese Industry/Production/Shipping. [:D] There's never enough of anything.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

LOL Everything is a problem when it comes to Japanese Industry/Production/Shipping. [:D] There's never enough of anything.

I know. But I said: "That's easy" and you didn't believe. Maybe my conclusions are totally wrong - quite possible - but when I say "that's easy", I should also show that, no? [;)]

What do you think? Which will you convert in which way, what do you think about my list?

[Mike Solli]

I haven't done the analysis you have so, even though I have the current DD class stats, some of this is (possibly flawed) based on WitP.  I'll just quote you and go from there.

[Historiker]

The data is from AE.

[Fletcher]

your conclusions about japanese DD/TB are Very interesting, Historiker, i'm taking notes.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Fixed DDs:
Akizuki: Escort out of enemy gunrange = CV escort
Asashiro: Maybe SCTF escort because of many torp and good range
Fubukis: SCTF Escort
Hatsuharu: rather CV escort because of range
Kagero: SCTF Escort
Matsu: late war DDs with bad data. Range not too long, SLOW, armement also not impressive.
Shimakaze: Impressive Torpedoes but long range also. So CV escort that can protect against SCTF.
Shiratsuyu: Dito! Good fuel efficiancy, rather CV escort.
Tachibana: Too slow. Escort for the old BBs (if left) as good ASW
Yugumo: SCTF

For me, that's 33 Destroyers (Akizuki and Hatsuharu) only for CV escort. That should be enough - as soon as the Akizukis are finished.

My KB is usually divided into TFs of 4 CV/CVL (based on speed), 4 fast BBs -or- 2 Tones -or- 4 CA, and a DD Squadron of a CL and 16 DDs. I like 23-25 ships to maximize AA. The BBs are usually ~29 kts so they usually escort the Akagi/Kaga/CVL/CVL group. By mid-42, unless I have lost some carriers, I have 3 groups. That's 48 DDs, and the CV TFs get the best DDs available.

I use a combination of different DDs for the CV TFs. In a stock WitP PBEM against my long-time WitP partner, here was my DD breakdown as of mid-May 43:

DESRON 1 (BB Fleet Escort): 3x Akatsuki, 4x Kagero, 6x Hatsuharu, 2x Shiratsuyu
DESRON 2 (KB): 4x Yugumo, 4x Asashio, 2x Akizuki, 3x Kagero, 1x Shimikaze
DESRON 3 (SE Fleet): 15x Fubuki
DESRON 4 (SRA Surface Fleet): 5x Shiratsuyu, 4x Kagero, 2x Asashio
DESRON 5 (Oiler Fleet 1): 4x Minekaze, 4x Kamikaze
DESRON 6 (KB): 3x Akizuki, 6x Kagero, 2x Asashio, 4x Yugumo
DESRON 7 (KB): 2x Yugumo, 8x Mutsuki, 4x Kamikaze
DESRON 8 (Oiler Fleet 2): 7x Minekaze
Escort Force: 4x Wakatake, 3x Momi, 9x Otori, 1x Kamikaze, 3x Mutsuki

This totalled 119 DDs. I'll probably do something similar in AE. I form DESRONs of 1 CL and 4 DESDIVs of 4 DDs each. I start with the historical DESRONs and modify as needed.

[Mike Solli]

I'm reluctant to convert to APDs.  Once done, they're for good.  Gotta look at what they gain/lose.

[Mynok]

Yikes! 25 ships in an A/C TF?!?! [X(][X(][X(][X(]

I've yet to experiment on how AA defense will be in AE, but it was not my primary defense in WITP. CAP was. May have to rethink now that CAP is neutered/more realistic. [:'(]

[Mike Solli]

CAP + AA made for safe CVs. [:D]

[Mynok]

AA didn't contribute anything much in Witp.