Defending Philippines

[Scotters1]

I'm playing the full campaign as the allies, and I'm still learning how to play the game, but here are some basic questions?

Is it wise to fortify Manila, or will that eat up too much precious supply.

I'd like to make my final stand in the city of Manila and bleed the Japansese in city fighting. No Bataan death march! Is this a practical idea?

I noticed that there are 27 subs stationed at Manila. Is it crazy to form them into a sub supply task force and try to bring in supplies? Of course I have no idea where to get them from, could I get them from Australia with the plan to supply Australia from Colombo? Or should I have the patrol around the Philippines and destroy as many ships as possible?

I plan on evacuating all other ships immediately, except for pt boats. Anything wrong with that?

Should I evacuate any American units? I would like to keep them in the Phillipines and fight till the end.

Any other basic actions that I should take?

[Scotters1]

One more question. Do I need to evacuate MacArthur's HQ for future missions? If I leave MacArthur in the Phillipines and his unit is destroyed does that mean the MacArthur is gone for good?

[OldCoot]

I'm at 15 Dec 41. I'm a NOOB too, so take anything I say with a liberal dosage of salt. Here's the way I'm defending the PI:

I figure the early Japanese landings in northern Luzon were just to secure airfields. Looking at the terrain, I figure the main Japanese thrusts will come from Lingayen in the north, and Legaspi in the south. This gives them ports and access to the railroad. Accordingly, I have sent 4 PA divisions to Lingayen and are having them dig in. I've got two more PA divisions digging in at Betrangas to counter any move up from Legaspi. I'm keeping the Philippine division and the scouts in reserve at Clark.

I'm not using the subs for resupply - I don't see enough supply around to make it worthwhile. I've turned on automatic subs ops, and they're getting hits now and then. Since I believe the main Japanese moves will come at Lingayen and Legaspi, I've split the PTs putting half at each base. The four PTs at Legaspi have already dinged a couple of unescorted Jap TFs and drove them away.

[Scotters1]

Is there anything special needed to make troops dig in?

[OldCoot]

Hit the "Build fortifications" button at the top of the base information screen.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Scotters1976

I'm playing the full campaign as the allies, and I'm still learning how to play the game, but here are some basic questions?

Is it wise to fortify Manila, or will that eat up too much precious supply.

I'd like to make my final stand in the city of Manila and bleed the Japansese in city fighting. No Bataan death march! Is this a practical idea?

In AE, Manila is now a "light urban" hex, so defensively, there's really no advantage defending Manila over Bataan.

The main advantage of holding Manila, IMHO, is that it can produce supplies -- as long as you can keep the Japanese out of the hex. So if you defend right, and the Japanese are obliging, maybe a defense of Manila can last longer than Bataan. However, once Bataan falls, the Japanese can bring in fleet units to bombard Manila.

I noticed that there are 27 subs stationed at Manila. Is it crazy to form them into a sub supply task force and try to bring in supplies? Of course I have no idea where to get them from, could I get them from Australia with the plan to supply Australia from Colombo? Or should I have the patrol around the Philippines and destroy as many ships as possible?

All in all, you probably get better use having your subs on patrol. Two issues bringing in supplies: 1. (Especially at Bataan) the port size limits how much you can unload each turn, and 2. Your subs are vulnerable while loading / unloading.

But that's my best guess -- I'll be interested to see what approaches you and other players develop.

I plan on evacuating all other ships immediately, except for pt boats. Anything wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that. You might want to send out the minesweepers first -- the AI likes to mine the straits at Bataan. I've seen 6 or 7 ships take mine hits if you try to steam everyone out on turn one. Of course, if you don't sail, you might have a dozen ships taking bomb and torpedo hits in Manila Bay. [8|]

Should I evacuate any American units? I would like to keep them in the Phillipines and fight till the end.

Personal preference. You don't need the base forces elsewhere as much as you did in stock, and the 4th Marine Regiment is only slightly better than other US regiments. Most of the 4th "Marines" were planeless US and Filipino airmen, shipless sailors, and Marines released from depot guard duty.

I'd try to rescue the Philippine Scout Combat Engineer unit if it looks possible. The US has few (non-divisional) combat engineers until mid-1944. Maybe one of the tank battalions, as well.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Scotters1976

One more question. Do I need to evacuate MacArthur's HQ for future missions? If I leave MacArthur in the Phillipines and his unit is destroyed does that mean the MacArthur is gone for good?

You can't evacuate USAFFE HQ. You *can* evacuate MacArthur -- but don't bother.

Even if you leave him to join the Bataan Death March he will escape to Australia in time to command SWPac HQ when it arrives in April 1942. At that point, if you want a different leader, you'll have to spend the PPs to sack him. You'll probably want to keep him for a while. Although several of his leadership qualities are sub-optimal, he's one of the very few US Army HQ commanders with a high aggressiveness rating.

[dasboot1960]

Really want to comment, but the walls have eyes. I am suprised that Manila is light urban. I haven't looked at what other cities in the area were classified as, but It was a fairly developed city for the time, with some large hotels and governemnt buildings, not to mention Intramuros which was a classical fortress. Looking at what the US went through 'liberating' it in '45, I wonder what heavy urban would be outside the US.

[Scotters1]

We are holding Manilla and building fortifications. The subs will patrol at ramming speed! The minesweepers will lead the way for ship evac. Otherwise no one is leaving! Not one step back. Remember the Alamo!

Thanks for all the ideas and advice. This forum has really helped this newby out!

You guys don't think that fortifying will eat up too much supply?

[jomni]

Good luck on your defense of Manila. I am Filipino so I'm rooting for you.  But I'm playing Japanese in my campaign.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: Scotters1976
You guys don't think that fortifying will eat up too much supply?

In my experience supply is less of an issue than AV... build away.

Singapore fell in my game while sitting on 70k supply. It almost tempts me to reinforce in future games...

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: Scotters1976

I'm playing the full campaign as the allies, and I'm still learning how to play the game, but here are some basic questions?

Is it wise to fortify Manila, or will that eat up too much precious supply.

I'd like to make my final stand in the city of Manila and bleed the Japansese in city fighting. No Bataan death march! Is this a practical idea?

In AE, Manila is now a "light urban" hex, so defensively, there's really no advantage defending Manila over Bataan.

The main advantage of holding Manila, IMHO, is that it can produce supplies -- as long as you can keep the Japanese out of the hex. So if you defend right, and the Japanese are obliging, maybe a defense of Manila can last longer than Bataan. However, once Bataan falls, the Japanese can bring in fleet units to bombard Manila.

This brings up an interesting point: What is the purpose of the "Famous Last Stand" in the PI? If it is to deny the port of Manila as long as possible, then the choices are Bataan and Manila as Blackhorse discussed. If the purpose is to hold out as long as possible then AE offers a new option: Clark Field.

Clark Field is now a +3 while both Bataan and Manila are +2. It cannot provide the possible supply that Manila offers, but it does provide almost as much malaria protection as Manila. Of course malaria protection is a two-edged sword since in Bataan both the Japanese and the Allies have a high malaria risk but Bataan base does provide a bit of shelter. While Clark Field cannot block access to Manila it will take a long time for the Japanese to infiltrate from Manile to Bataan along the trail-less terrain and then they still have to take it from whatever garrison is left there. Overall, it makes an interesting option.

[Mike Solli]

As the Japanese player, I have one goal in the Philippines.  I want to clear the main island out as fast as possible because those forces need to head SW to clear the rest of the SRA.

[Shark7]

I have a slightly different Philippine strategy most of the time. I'll bottle up the defenders in Bataan or Manila and just bomb them into starvation. Thus releasing a couple of divisions far earlier than otherwise possible. Philippines can be strangled by air and sea blockade...and those troops aren't going anywhere.

I also tend to secure the southern SRA (Tarakan, Balikpapan, Amboina, Kendari, Macassar) early to help stop the movement of the fuel and oil out of Java and Sumatra.

Basically never directly attack what you can attrit.

[Q-Ball]

As JFB, the only hex that matters is Manila. Manila is worth alot of VP points if you are going for auto-victory. You also have to get there to stop supply production, that is a priority.

Bataan's only real value is that holding Bataan does deny use of the harbor to the Japanese. For the most part though if you retreat to Bataan, I will be content to leave a Brigade there and move on with everyone else. Manila as a harbor is a nice to have, but the Empire can live without it. The Empire can wait until late'42 to take out the troops, at which point they will be mostly starved anyway.

Holding out in Clark is an interesting choice, you do have more options from there, and you can still cover Bataan, since that hex is immune to amphib landings.

An irritating feature of WITP was the Allied ability to withdraw fragments to be rebuilt in Australia. This was a key reason for NOT destroying all the Allied units in the PI, as soon as you did, their fragments would start expanding in Australia. AE takes away some of this for the Phillipino forces anyway, but something the Imperial player still should be conscious of.


EDIT: Shark7's post crossed mine, but I agree: Why take it head-on? What is the point? I do not advocate bypassing it completely, you need to land strong to drive the Allies off the airbases and supply sources and eliminate it as a potential airbase platform. Once you do that, though, it's just a giant POW camp. Leave a covering force, and let starvation do all the work.

SRA is totally different: You need to physically take it, including Singapore. But the PI....let it starve. If all those troops on Luzon were on Java instead, this game would be 10 times harder for Japan.

[Chickenboy]

Q-ball,

Does your decision to attrit Manila with LBA change with the understanding that Manila is now capable of producing supplies in AE?

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Q-ball,

Does your decision to attrit Manila with LBA change with the understanding that Manila is now capable of producing supplies in AE?

You only need to send in a force large enough to not be dislodged to eliminate that problem. Two divisions and Tank/artillery support might be enough. If enemy troops are in the hex, it does not produce.

[Jim D Burns]

Things have changed dramatically on Luzon from WitP days. Remember enemy units in your hex no longer prevent you from leaving across a friendly controlled hex side, so as long as you control the hex side between Manila and Clark, you can defend both hexes now and not worry about pulling back before Japan enters your hex as you used to have to do in WitP days to prevent your units from being isolated from each other, which usually lead to the loss of about half the islands supply when you abandoned bases in the face of enemy units closing in.

This translates into the ability to utilize most of the supply on the island now, since you can tweak up supply demands for Clark, Manila and Bataan (keep Bataan below 16k to prevent spoilage penalties) and pull most of the islands supply into those three hexes before Japan gets significant ground troops ashore.

If you use the PBY's to air lift the two Philippine divisions on the small southern islands into Manila, you should then have enough land strength to hold both Manila and Clark at the same time for a considerable period. This takes discipline, it's tempting to go after the ships with your PBYs, but don't. It takes weeks to get a full division moved, so every day you don't fly means that much less land strength ashore. And eventually your fighters will get worn down and you'll no longer have protection for your air lifts.

That'll allow you to try and get an occasional supply ship in to offload quickly at Manila, and give you a decent port to unload your sub supply runs at so they aren't exposed to air attacks for longer than one turn or so. It also means Japan will have to divide his air assets to try and keep two airfields closed instead of just one.

So I'd dig in at Clark and Manila, and hold off digging forts at Bataan until those two bases were at level 5 or 6. After that, I'd pull all my engineers into Bataan and dig in there until Japan finally forced its way into the hex.

I'd divide the Philippine army divisions evenly between Clark and Manila, and send all the independent regiments to Clark since you don't want to be forced to retreat from there until Manila has already fallen and those units have retreated towards Clark and Bataan first. I'd leave the US units in Bataan to act as a strong core force for the final redoubt.

Except the two armor units of course, I'd use those on the front lines until they were well experienced with many disabled tanks. Then I'd pull them back to rest up at Bataan to get ready for the final holdout.

Jim

[Jim D Burns]

double post.

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

In AE, Manila is now a "light urban" hex, so defensively, there's really no advantage defending Manila over Bataan.

The main advantage of holding Manila, IMHO, is that it can produce supplies -- as long as you can keep the Japanese out of the hex. So if you defend right, and the Japanese are obliging, maybe a defense of Manila can last longer than Bataan. However, once Bataan falls, the Japanese can bring in fleet units to bombard Manila.

In reality Manila should probably be producing negative supplies, especially if it is isolated from the rest of Luzon, to reflect the fact that it would have been politically unfeasable for the US to allow the population of Manila to starve.