Best game to enter the genre?

[WYBaugh]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

ORIGINAL: jjax

ORIGINAL: killroyishere



http://www.killerbeesoftware.com/

Right up your alley to start off with like an Axis & Allies but more depth to production. Empire Deluxe or Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition if you're brave and like a bit more detail and more different troup types and tactical gameplay.

Also no wargamers library would be complete without Steel Panthers W@W and it's free.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/sp_waw.htm

Sorry, as much as is like to support indy developers, that version of Empire deluxe is not worth the 35 they are asking for it!

When you consider the amount of clones and abandonware versions of the game that are on the net for free, that price is highway robbery.

However, the empire games are a great place top start. I played those games to death when I was a wee tyke.

Sounds to me like you are advocating piracy.

What? Where did that come from?

[pvthudson01]

Holy cow...Empire.. I haven't seen that in years.

Remember folks he is looking to break into the genre, not get a degree in wargaming. Suggesting things like WiP may be a bit too much.

I would look at things like Commander: Europe at War or maybe Strategic Command 2 first honestly, or WW2 Time of Wrath.

COTA is good also, but dang folks don't suggest things like Uncommon Valor, we want to keep him around not drive him away (not saying its a bad game either, but not for a beginner!)

if you really want a good answer, head into the boards of the games listed and read the After Action reports, see if you like the flow of the game, the look, the complexity and hope it has a demo!

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: tellville
I love playing games like Risk and Axis and Allies. I also played heavily Master of Orion I & II, and all four Civilizations. I also played a healthy does of Heroes of Might and Magic III.

If you loved Axis and Allies, I would suggest the following, as these are some of our easiest games to get into and they cover the same kind of scale as Axis and Allies.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/330 ... ld.Divided

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/344 ... t.War.Gold

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/345 ... rld.War.II

And on the tactical scale, try:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/368 ... ongest.Day

We also have new Sci-Fi game in the works that I think you will love, but that's not quite ready for release yet, so check back later please.

Regards,

- Erik

[jjax]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

ORIGINAL: jjax

ORIGINAL: killroyishere



http://www.killerbeesoftware.com/

Right up your alley to start off with like an Axis & Allies but more depth to production. Empire Deluxe or Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition if you're brave and like a bit more detail and more different troup types and tactical gameplay.

Also no wargamers library would be complete without Steel Panthers W@W and it's free.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/sp_waw.htm

Sorry, as much as is like to support indy developers, that version of Empire deluxe is not worth the 35 they are asking for it!

When you consider the amount of clones and abandonware versions of the game that are on the net for free, that price is highway robbery.

However, the empire games are a great place top start. I played those games to death when I was a wee tyke.

Sounds to me like you are advocating piracy.

[8|]
Excuse me?

Neither a clone or abondonware is considered piracy. A clone differs from the original product enough to avoid copyright laws. Abondonware, as the name suggest, is software whose copyright ownership has lapse.

Sounds to me like you don't know what piracy means.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: jjax

Abandonware, as the name suggest, is software whose copyright ownership has lapse.

Rarely. More usually it is just older software no longer available to buy. How 'abandoned' or otherwise it might be seems to depend on the publishers, whether they are still trading, and whether they have joined some trade anti-piracy group (which is fair enough) staffed by suited idiots who can't distinguish between Descent 2 and The Sims 3 (which isn't).

[Lützow]

Panzer General should be abandonware and there was some clone for Jane's Fleet Command, called Global Conflict Blue or stuff. Anyway, since we're talking about a free games, I also would recommend Steel Panthers.

[V22 Osprey]

You can get JTCS for how much they charge for empire deluxe...

Another vote from me for Steel Panthers WAW.Its free, and it offers waaayyy more than empire deluxe.

[tellville]

I'm currently leaning towards Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided. Mainly because it look likes something I am already familiar with (Axis and Allies) and a few of you have suggested it is a great place to start. Thank you all for your suggestions! They have been a big help and have made the idea of going into wargaming a lot smoother!

[AttuWatcher]

Good luck tellville, let us know if you have any further questions.

[tellville]

I asked this in the World at War forum but it doesn't look like it gets a lot of views. So I'll ask here as well.

Just some questions I have.

1. Is it possible for the Axis to conquer London? How about landing and holding the US? If possible, are these goals even worth pursuing?

2. Is Russia entering the war or the US entering the war on the allies side inevitable? I think I read in the FAQ that it is, but I'm not sure how up-to-date the faq is and whether any new updates have changed that possibility.

3. To learn the game is it better to start as the Allies or the Axis and is it better to start as one country or the whole team?

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: jjax

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

ORIGINAL: jjax




Sorry, as much as is like to support indy developers, that version of Empire deluxe is not worth the 35 they are asking for it!

When you consider the amount of clones and abandonware versions of the game that are on the net for free, that price is highway robbery.

However, the empire games are a great place top start. I played those games to death when I was a wee tyke.

Sounds to me like you are advocating piracy.

[8|]
Excuse me?

Neither a clone or abondonware is considered piracy. A clone differs from the original product enough to avoid copyright laws. Abondonware, as the name suggest, is software whose copyright ownership has lapse.

Sounds to me like you don't know what piracy means.

Well, according the publisher of the current Empire Deluxe, he purchased the rights to the game. So, I'd say the claim of abandonware might not hold up.

I am not certain what is meant by 'clone' and how much or to what degree a 'clone' takes from the original. I suppose that some sort of software attorneys would have to make that determination.

So, it's clear to me from your rebuttal that you do not advocate piracy. Fair enough.

[V22 Osprey]

A clone is a game that is exactly like the real game, but it's usually free and a different name.For example, ''FreeCiv'' is a feeware Civilization Clone:
http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Since you can only copywrite the name of game, not the gameplay, there are plenty of clones out there of games.

[jjax]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

ORIGINAL: jjax

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.





Sounds to me like you are advocating piracy.

[8|]
Excuse me?

Neither a clone or abondonware is considered piracy. A clone differs from the original product enough to avoid copyright laws. Abondonware, as the name suggest, is software whose copyright ownership has lapse.

Sounds to me like you don't know what piracy means.

Well, according the publisher of the current Empire Deluxe, he purchased the rights to the game. So, I'd say the claim of abandonware might not hold up.

I am not certain what is meant by 'clone' and how much or to what degree a 'clone' takes from the original. I suppose that some sort of software attorneys would have to make that determination.

So, it's clear to me from your rebuttal that you do not advocate piracy. Fair enough.

It is a blurry line. Nintendo is famous for successfully suing developers over so called clones of their titles.

And the rule of thumb people who run abondonware sites is to post the software until they get an email from lawyers, so who knows...

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: tellville

However, I am looking to get into wargaming. Axis and Allies is probably my favourite game from the bunch above. What would you guys recommend would be a good game to get one into the genre of wargaming?

Hi Tellville, if we're talking Matrix I would recommend two games as being very simple to learn, big on the war gaming experience and yet hard to master:

SSG's Carriers at War
SSG's Battles in Normandy

In my opinion the Matrix version of Axis and Allies called "World at War" is too fiddly in interface.

Not enough entry level PC war games have ever been made that feel right.

Sure there are games like Matrix's "Commander Napoleon at War" but who wants cannons that can shoot across an entire country?

Crazy when you think you can now command every ship that ever appeared in the Pacific Theatre in the new "War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition". Monster gamers must be the only ones with money? I don't think so.

Happy gaming,
Adam.

[Arsan]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker


Sure there are games like Matrix's "Commander Napoleon at War" but who wants cannons that can shoot across an entire country?

Indeed... but what people (me included) are recommending to him is the much better WW2 original game, Commander Europe at war [;)]

Battles is Normandy is a great game! [&o]
but Carriers at war is so shallow and short [:(] I wanted to like it but...

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: tellville
1. Is it possible for the Axis to conquer London? How about landing and holding the US? If possible, are these goals even worth pursuing?

Yes to both. I would say the first is worth pursuing if you do well in your early game, the second is quite a longshot.

2. Is Russia entering the war or the US entering the war on the allies side inevitable? I think I read in the FAQ that it is, but I'm not sure how up-to-date the faq is and whether any new updates have changed that possibility.

It's not technically inevitable, but it is practically inevitable. What you can mainly change is _when_ they enter the war. As the Axis, being very aggressive will move them closer to war sooner. Being more careful could keep their entry further off, it's a balancing act between what you want to do conquest-wise and how long you want the USSR and US to stay out of it.

3. To learn the game is it better to start as the Allies or the Axis and is it better to start as one country or the whole team?

It's best to start with the tutorials and the manual, then once you've gotten through the tutorials, I'd say start as either the Western Allies or Germany. The USSR, Japan and China I would leave until you get comfortable.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Sure there are games like Matrix's "Commander Napoleon at War" but who wants cannons that can shoot across an entire country?

Keep in mind that the frame of reference here is Risk, Axis and Allies and Civilization. Besides, CNAW's design does work, it's meant to bring out some of the operational/tactical mechanics of Napoleonic warfare at the strategic scale, which is basically the same thing that CEAW or Panzer General did. I think folks just have a harder time wrapping their heads around it in the Napoleonic Era.

Regards,

- Erik