PBEM 109

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Anthropoid
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Anthropoid »

It isn't fair to penalize or conspire against players for using a tactic allowed in the game and not in violation of any house rule.

How so!? [X(]

I mean, that is what PBEMs are all about right? Conspiring, back-stabbing, taunting a secund timah.

In real life, if the Pasha of Turkey spent hundreds of thousands florins and deployed the full-might of his diplomatic assets to tear away an entire nation from another European leader, i.e., black ops "conquesting" of a sort, what would the consequence have been?

If those target nations could not respond with equivalent diplomatic retaliation, they would have responded with military or economic. Moreover, they would have tried to form an alliance to assist them.

Its not gamey to discuss prospective alliances "ganging up" on other nations because they have done something to upset the balance of power or "broken the rules" of international relations. The argument that this is a mid-game issue may be a valid reason to let the house rule for moratoriums on insurrections lie, but it is NOT an argument against an international quorum to form an alliance to punish insurrectors. None of us could foresee that the contemporary historical national assets (read game mechanics) would allow for this sort of abuse of international relations. Now that it has occurred, and there has been an international discussion about it, a majority opinion has been reached: the use of diplomatic assets to invoke insurrections in the minor national posessions of major nations is a breach of the spirit of international law, even if it does technically fall within the boundaries of said law.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by 06 Maestro »

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid



How so!? [X(]

I mean, that is what PBEMs are all about right? Conspiring, back-stabbing, taunting a secund timah.

In real life, if the Pasha of Turkey spent hundreds of thousands florins and deployed the full-might of his diplomatic assets to tear away an entire nation from another European leader, i.e., black ops "conquesting" of a sort, what would the consequence have been?

If those target nations could not respond with equivalent diplomatic retaliation, they would have responded with military or economic. Moreover, they would have tried to form an alliance to assist them.

Hey, there is only one diplomat working on insurrection. The Sultan just wants to know if it works-there are no malicious designs. A small, backward, out of the way country which The O.E. has no interests in seemed like a good place for the test. If the test could be conducted in the Mariana's, he would be sent there, but it is not so Bavaria will have to do.

After the test is complete there will be no further such efforts. However, the O.E. will retain this capability as a legitament response to any power that attempts that same use inside of the O.E. I hope it never comes to that.[;)]
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Anthropoid »

Makes me think of Mutually Assured Destruction and the nuke arms race of the 21st century [:D]
 
That right there says there is something not quite right with how the Insurrection function works in-game.
 
I see from the Events in the last turn that who ever was the first to strike has opened Pandora's proverbial box, and virtually everyone seems to have jumped on the Insurrector bandagon, making my call to censure those who engaged in such dastardly practices ring on all the more deaf of ears.
 
Well you guys just go right ahead and knock yourselves out! [:-]
 
Can't we all just get along?!?
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by 06 Maestro »

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Can't we all just get along?!?


[:D] That's all I want to do. However, experimentation must go forward so long as it does not hurt anyone (too badly). Besides, who really cares about Bavaria?
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by aprezto »

Very good points all. I mean how do you know, I mean 'really' know, your nuclear weapon works unless you test one?
And just in case they do work, it's better to find a place aaaallllooooonnnnggg way from home to let them off, I mean your populace is probably going to be pretty unhappy having them light off in their backyard.
Better then, by far to let them off in someone elses backyard. They wont mind if your engineers just happened to read the manual right will they?

There is no way you'd incur their eternal condemnation and hostility if the damnable thing actually worked would there?

It was only a test after all... I mean its what friends call a little 'joke'. The kind of one that's funny when you're really drunk.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Its not gamey to discuss prospective alliances "ganging up" on other nations because they have done something to upset the balance of power or "broken the rules" of international relations.

Disagree to an extent, because you are trying to artificially create alliances ahead of timeover a tactic everyone is free to engage in, but I get your point about alliances to effect this that or the other thing. Again, as I said in the "Another PBEM" thread, I will eagerly await Russia taking action against Turkey and France in that game, the worst offenders when it comes to insurrections.

I suspect this is more of an effort for Russia to stir up trouble for other people and then sit behind her low forage level province "shield" and not suffer any of the consequences. If you took the lead in any coalition effort to "punish" an insurrection starting country I would be shocked.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Anthropoid »

took the lead in any coalition effort to "punish" an insurrection starting country I would be shocked.

Ummm? . . . isn't that what I was trying to do in my first post on the topic? [&:]

I guess if I'm going to be the U.N. Secretary General here, I need to know the facts . . .

So far, this match is still pretty young. Can I get an exact timeline of who has given Insurrection orders so far (forum name and nation as well as location of insurrection) and where Insurrections have happened?

While your claim that "France and Turkey are the worst offenders" might be compelling to you, I'd like to know a bit more details about who, when, where, and if possible why before I (as one of the few nations not involved in the insurrection-contest) start to act as mediator.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by 06 Maestro »

ORIGINAL: aprezto
There is no way you'd incur their eternal condemnation and hostility if the damnable thing actually worked would there?

I certainly hope not. If someone does get slightly burned in the test, the Sultan would insist on sending a few jars of spice to sooth the wounds.

I'm anxious to see the fireworks-where is the turn?
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by IronWarrior »

Looks like I need Sweden's turn. I think this is the first time he's been last to send the file. [:)]
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Ummm? . . . isn't that what I was trying to do in my first post on the topic?

I meant by actually doing something about it in game. I said you would be willing to make noise and cause trouble (what you have already done) I just doubt you will put your money where your mouth is.

[;)]
ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

I guess if I'm going to be the U.N. Secretary General here, I need to know the facts . . .

That's a good analogy. UN Secretary General. All bark, no bite.

[:'(]
ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

While your claim that "France and Turkey are the worst offenders" might be compelling to you, I'd like to know a bit more details about who, when, where, and if possible why before I (as one of the few nations not involved in the insurrection-contest) start to act as mediator.

That was in regard to "Another PBEM" not this game. So far there has been very few insurrection attempts in PBEM 109.


Anyways, WHO Are we waiting on for turn merge in this one?
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by IronWarrior »

Waiting for you Mus. [:D]
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

Sorry, I didnt see the T31 files in my box. My turn is in. I thought we were still waiting on T30 being merged.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

Who are we waiting on now?
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

Brits T33 in.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by aprezto »

Well well. It appears the Turkish nukes work.
 
Have to find out if my two do as well.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by 06 Maestro »

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Well well. It appears the Turkish nukes work.

Have to find out if my two do as well.

Test is complete, mission accomplished. Task force recalled.

Do you need spice?[;)] For you, my dear king, a very special price.

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RE: PBEM 109

Post by aprezto »

Ah, no thanks. No need for Turkish spice. We like our food bland but hearty.
 
Although sometimes with just a little something salty. Sometimes gunpowder is just the trick.
 
Happy to offer you the chance to try it.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

All this talk of food is making Britain hungry.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by aprezto »

Really? I thought Britain was on a diet.
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RE: PBEM 109

Post by Mus »

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Really? I thought Britain was on a diet.

A steady diet of German minors.

[:D]
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