Since it seems like aztez’ AAR is getting a lot of traffic (based on the replies and hits), I thought it might be of interest to provide a glimpse at the other side of the coin. I won’t be posting every turn or in great detail, but I’ll try to cover what I think might be items of greatest interest on an intermittent basis.
As a caution, both this AAR and Aztez’ are closed AARs. Info learned in one should not be conveyed in any way to the other. Two specific concerns: First, be careful what questions you ask. On the Witp forum AARs, I’ve seen cases where people have asked, presumably innocently, questions that seem to be prompted by the other AAR. Second, remember that FOW is greater and so don’t say anything that might defog me. A combined example of these points is don’t ask “How did you manage to sink the Essex?” I shouldn’t know for sure it sank. A better question is “could you say something about the battle at Tsushima Straits?”
I probably won’t post as much of my plans as I do post-mortems, but still be careful; and based on his WITP AAR Aztez will probably post some plan info so be very, very careful.
A lot of this may end up being ramblings explaining why I did what I did.
I’ll post my thoughts and approach on industry later. I also have some thoughts on game settings I’ll jot down later.
My general philosophy is that while flair matters, the keys to winning are 1) make the fewest mistakes 2) only give your opponent losing options. Mistakes can fall into two categories – excessive risk taking, and the mechanics mistakes (oops – I forgot to set the cap over this TF). Giving the opponent losing options means setting things up so he can't win, no matter how he chooses to react. Thus, you’ll find that if I have operations going, they will be well supported. In AE, it’s especially important that invasion TFs be backed by strong surface combat assets. Air isn’t enough to keep from having your transports trashed. But you also generally need the air, so that your opponent can’t toss in a overwhelming surface force. Then if he doesn't interfere, I land; achieving my mission; success. If expendable Allied surface forces interfere, my escort defeats them and I land, achieving my mission, success. If he throws in the big guys my landing might be interrupted but he will take unacceptable losses.
As a quick catchup on what has transpired. We ended up using historical first turn, mainly at my request because I was overwhelmed enough as it was. To a certain extent this locks into some fairly standard opening moves – KB hits PH, landings at Kota Baru, troops approach but don’t land Luzon, etc.
On my first real turn, I continued with the landings at Kota Baru, headed for Aparri, Vigan, and Laoag.
On the other hand, I sent the wake invasion back to Kwaj for a turn. Again, I don't like unsupported operations that only work if my opponent doesn't interfere. Allies can get a CV to wake on Turn 3, I can't; and one Daitai of bettys outside of both escort and torpedo range isn't going to exact sufficient retribution if the allied CV shows up and hammers the invasion force. Plus, the Wake invasion is iffy enough to start with. So, KB heads towards Wake with the intent to support the Wake invasion and deter any intervention. Of course, this wins big as I catch and probably sink a CV. That's probably a mistake on aztez' part. It's certainly not unusual for an IJN player to worry about allied intervention at wake and head KB in that direction, he probably should have routed it south or maybe north rather than east. With a little ground bombing from KB, Wake fell easily.
Similarly, I stood off the legaspi invasion force; not enough surface assets to make me happy if aztez decided to send some SCTFs there, plus no air cover. And there's no real hurry for legaspi in my mind.
On the other hand, there are a number of small invasion TFs that start poised to hit Kavieng and shortlands, with four left over for various NG bases. I let these go in unsupported because there isn't really much in the way of allied assets near by, plus these were small enough that I could lose one entirely and consider it expendable.
Oh, and the Laoag force got trashed by some allied SCTFs. I believe I did everything right, the invasion TF was following a SCTF; but for some reason the enemy got to the transports first. Generally, I do see the SCTF engage, so I think this is probably WAD and reasonable; every so often the covering force will be surprised and out of position. I ended up re-routing the survivors to Vigan, which was probably a better option anyway.
JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
12/13/41
I assume aztez has posted by now that I severely damaged another CV, sub attack near Johnston Island. Combat report claimed sunk, but supposedly only two torps went in and I wouldn't have thought that as an immediate sinking, so I'm a bit skeptical. Can't be in good shape, though.
Wish I could claim credit for masterful planning, but this one was really just good luck on my part and bad luck on Jari's. I basically sort of just plopped patrol zones at semi-random but scattered places around pearl, with a few at johnston, midway,christmas island, etc. I figure since movement is hex by hex if I keep the subs moving in the right general vicinities they'll do their job; I have enough to deal with without trying to figure the exact optimal hexes for several dozen sub TFs.
I assume aztez has posted by now that I severely damaged another CV, sub attack near Johnston Island. Combat report claimed sunk, but supposedly only two torps went in and I wouldn't have thought that as an immediate sinking, so I'm a bit skeptical. Can't be in good shape, though.
Wish I could claim credit for masterful planning, but this one was really just good luck on my part and bad luck on Jari's. I basically sort of just plopped patrol zones at semi-random but scattered places around pearl, with a few at johnston, midway,christmas island, etc. I figure since movement is hex by hex if I keep the subs moving in the right general vicinities they'll do their job; I have enough to deal with without trying to figure the exact optimal hexes for several dozen sub TFs.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Looking forward to your side of the story! Thanks!
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RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Some thoughts on resource hauling...
The devs mentioned some of this early on but I haven't seen it emphasized much in the new AARs, etc. The Japanese industry is HUNGRY. And ports are limited. Gone are the days when you can just load up a big honking TF once in a while and run into Japan with 500K resources at a pop.
I assume all JFBs are using WitpStaff. If not, you need to. One of the first things that will strike you is that Honshu (the main Japanese Island) has a resource deficit of over 110,000 resources. PER DAY. Some will trickle in from the surrounding islands. But, if the manual is to be believed, only 500 points per port level, so if you are connecting via an L5 port, that's only 2500 per day. Helps, but not a big dent. I haven't structured a test to verify that number is exactly correct, but looking at the pileup of resources on the outer islands it's probably right.
Put this in perspective. Assume you get around 10K from surrounding island osmosis. That means you need 100K brought in. If a typical resource hauler has a capacity of, say, 4K, you need to be unloading 25 transport ships PER DAY. And loading 25 transport ships PER DAY. Using the 2K guys? Double that.
So say the average round trip for the nearby resources 6 or 8 days, including load/unload/transit. That means you need 150-200 xAKs hauling resources, full time. I haven't done much planning for resources further out, but the xAK efficiency there will be proportionately worse.
And you don't start with much cushion. Honshu starts with about a month of reserve. So you don't want to putz around learning the game for a bit and then start the resource pipeline, you want to start at day 1 or as close to as you can.
Fortunately, a lot of the resources you need are close at hand in the HI. You do need to carefully look at port daily rates and docking limits to size the TFs correctly for a particular route(I did post a link in the warroom to a spreadsheet that helps figure some of this out, it's not perfect yet but better than nothing). You don't ever want your transports sitting idle because the port is out of "load points" and you don't ever want to be loading at the undocked rate.
I won't claim to have fully optimized this yet, but a few points for consideration:
- Use your slower xAKs (speed 10 and 12) for hauling between the Home Islands. With only a couple hexes to go, they'll spend a higher proportion of time in the load/unload phase rather than movement, so the slower speed won't matter as much. Save the faster ships for the longer hauls.
- I tend to use all the same class xAK in a TF, and also in the TFs servicing the same pair of ports. Although there's probably room for some mismatch, you don't want to have some smaller hulls sitting idle waiting for the others to fill. Additionally, since in many cases you will need multiple TFs between a pair of ports, you want them to remain staggered to avoid daily load limit and docking issues. So the total load/unload/transit time needs to be the same for each TF (as measured in turns)
- I haven't been able to get the computer control to work for a resource convoy (anyone know if it is supposed to?) so you need to know where your points of origination are and make sure that any TFs that have returned there are started on a new load/deliver cycle.
- Dock your TFs at the source port. Often they do automatically, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem universal.
- Although it's tempting to put all of your HI airforce on training, remember that sooner or later the AFBs will wise up that there's a lot of juicy shipping running around the HI. Plan for adequate ASW escorts, hunter-killer task forces, and ASW/search/attack air assets. The good news is the transport paths will be well defined and often short so I'm thinking part of the strategy is use the patrol zones to ping-ping ASW TFs between the termini.
One additional comment is that in the early game when you may be gathering up shipping and returning it to the home islands, don't let anything go back empty if you can help it. Fill it up before sending it home.
Oh, and don't worry about the projected shortfall witpstaff shows for oil in "Siam/Malaya" ; it will flow in from Indochina.
The devs mentioned some of this early on but I haven't seen it emphasized much in the new AARs, etc. The Japanese industry is HUNGRY. And ports are limited. Gone are the days when you can just load up a big honking TF once in a while and run into Japan with 500K resources at a pop.
I assume all JFBs are using WitpStaff. If not, you need to. One of the first things that will strike you is that Honshu (the main Japanese Island) has a resource deficit of over 110,000 resources. PER DAY. Some will trickle in from the surrounding islands. But, if the manual is to be believed, only 500 points per port level, so if you are connecting via an L5 port, that's only 2500 per day. Helps, but not a big dent. I haven't structured a test to verify that number is exactly correct, but looking at the pileup of resources on the outer islands it's probably right.
Put this in perspective. Assume you get around 10K from surrounding island osmosis. That means you need 100K brought in. If a typical resource hauler has a capacity of, say, 4K, you need to be unloading 25 transport ships PER DAY. And loading 25 transport ships PER DAY. Using the 2K guys? Double that.
So say the average round trip for the nearby resources 6 or 8 days, including load/unload/transit. That means you need 150-200 xAKs hauling resources, full time. I haven't done much planning for resources further out, but the xAK efficiency there will be proportionately worse.
And you don't start with much cushion. Honshu starts with about a month of reserve. So you don't want to putz around learning the game for a bit and then start the resource pipeline, you want to start at day 1 or as close to as you can.
Fortunately, a lot of the resources you need are close at hand in the HI. You do need to carefully look at port daily rates and docking limits to size the TFs correctly for a particular route(I did post a link in the warroom to a spreadsheet that helps figure some of this out, it's not perfect yet but better than nothing). You don't ever want your transports sitting idle because the port is out of "load points" and you don't ever want to be loading at the undocked rate.
I won't claim to have fully optimized this yet, but a few points for consideration:
- Use your slower xAKs (speed 10 and 12) for hauling between the Home Islands. With only a couple hexes to go, they'll spend a higher proportion of time in the load/unload phase rather than movement, so the slower speed won't matter as much. Save the faster ships for the longer hauls.
- I tend to use all the same class xAK in a TF, and also in the TFs servicing the same pair of ports. Although there's probably room for some mismatch, you don't want to have some smaller hulls sitting idle waiting for the others to fill. Additionally, since in many cases you will need multiple TFs between a pair of ports, you want them to remain staggered to avoid daily load limit and docking issues. So the total load/unload/transit time needs to be the same for each TF (as measured in turns)
- I haven't been able to get the computer control to work for a resource convoy (anyone know if it is supposed to?) so you need to know where your points of origination are and make sure that any TFs that have returned there are started on a new load/deliver cycle.
- Dock your TFs at the source port. Often they do automatically, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem universal.
- Although it's tempting to put all of your HI airforce on training, remember that sooner or later the AFBs will wise up that there's a lot of juicy shipping running around the HI. Plan for adequate ASW escorts, hunter-killer task forces, and ASW/search/attack air assets. The good news is the transport paths will be well defined and often short so I'm thinking part of the strategy is use the patrol zones to ping-ping ASW TFs between the termini.
One additional comment is that in the early game when you may be gathering up shipping and returning it to the home islands, don't let anything go back empty if you can help it. Fill it up before sending it home.
Oh, and don't worry about the projected shortfall witpstaff shows for oil in "Siam/Malaya" ; it will flow in from Indochina.
-
Captain Cruft
- Posts: 3752
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: England
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
What are you doing about the resources generated in China, Manchuria and Korea? The journey times from those places are quite long, up to 3/4 days. I am finding it very difficult to keep up with it, although to be fair I am not doing it very scientifically.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Good thoughts on the economy. 100K is a HUGE deficit. No more AK's sitting around in ports like the old days!
What are your plans in the SW Pacific? It seems to me a good idea is to skip Guam, and land the 144th Inf Rgt. straight on Rabaul. The Cruisers there can cover, and I wouldn't expect air opposition other than from those 2 USN CV's at sea, which it sounds like you accounted for. Guam can be taken later by a a SNLF transiting from Japan to Truk.
Can you list your beginning landing targets?
What are your plans in the SW Pacific? It seems to me a good idea is to skip Guam, and land the 144th Inf Rgt. straight on Rabaul. The Cruisers there can cover, and I wouldn't expect air opposition other than from those 2 USN CV's at sea, which it sounds like you accounted for. Guam can be taken later by a a SNLF transiting from Japan to Truk.
Can you list your beginning landing targets?
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Um, yeah, remember the "He who makes the fewest mistakes tends to win" lecture? Well, just to illustrate the point, I decided to make a big mistake as an example.[8|]
Oh, OK, it was just stupidity. I sent a 3BB TF to bombard Clark field. What I didn't realize was that the west side of Clark(/Subic) is blocked and the path runs past the CD emplacements and minefields of Bataan. I should have verified the pathing after giving the order, but I just didn't think of it. So I lost my escorting DDs and several of my BBs got banged up noticeably.
Then, to make matters worse, instead of cutting my losses and taking my chances sending them back past Bataan, I have the "clever" idea that "hey, maybe I can just park them at Clark for a week while I take it, then disband in that port until Bataan is cleared. Bad idea. The other lesson I preach is only give your opponent losing options. What's the logical thing for the Allied player to do? Send in anything that carries a torpedo and see what happens. Ise takes three fish and sinks. And the other BBs return to base without much further excitement.
So, I lose a BB, and have two others that need repair, all because of one bone-headed play. Just goes to show you're never as smart as you think you are.
Oh, OK, it was just stupidity. I sent a 3BB TF to bombard Clark field. What I didn't realize was that the west side of Clark(/Subic) is blocked and the path runs past the CD emplacements and minefields of Bataan. I should have verified the pathing after giving the order, but I just didn't think of it. So I lost my escorting DDs and several of my BBs got banged up noticeably.
Then, to make matters worse, instead of cutting my losses and taking my chances sending them back past Bataan, I have the "clever" idea that "hey, maybe I can just park them at Clark for a week while I take it, then disband in that port until Bataan is cleared. Bad idea. The other lesson I preach is only give your opponent losing options. What's the logical thing for the Allied player to do? Send in anything that carries a torpedo and see what happens. Ise takes three fish and sinks. And the other BBs return to base without much further excitement.
So, I lose a BB, and have two others that need repair, all because of one bone-headed play. Just goes to show you're never as smart as you think you are.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
What are you doing about the resources generated in China, Manchuria and Korea? The journey times from those places are quite long, up to 3/4 days. I am finding it very difficult to keep up with it, although to be fair I am not doing it very scientifically.
Well, there's fewer to worry about. China generates something like a 25K surplus at first. Honestly, I haven't gotten very scientific about this either. It's still early so there's a lot of shipping unloading in various spots and so I've just been filling them up on the way back. I also have a couple of TFs running between Korea and Honshu. What I don't know (yet) is whether you can drain all of China via Korea (with the resources moving overland) or if you'll need to pick some stuff up in China proper.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Watch them Drop Tanks!
<I assume aztez is posting combat reports, and that most folks will have read them over there. If he's not posting combat highlights, let me know>
On the 12/17-12/18 turn cycle, I had sent an invasion force to Kuantan from Kota Baru. It was well screened by surface assets, but when the bombers came screaming out of Singapore I had at most two nates flying cap, sometimes none. Lost a transport or two, and took some other damage. Many of the raids were unescorted and would have been chewed up by even a modest cap.
I thought I had adequate LR CAP so I loaded my "safety save". I verified that my two nate units were indeed set to LRCAP. One had 40 planes and was set to 50%, one was 18 planes and set to 40%. However, I didn't have drop tanks set to the 40 plane unit. Since Kuantan is 4 hexes from Kota Baru, that means once the transports were at target that squadron was no longer involved.
So the moral of today's story is
Watch them Drop Tanks!
"He who makes the fewest mistakes, tends to win"
Let's hope aztez is making a few.
<I assume aztez is posting combat reports, and that most folks will have read them over there. If he's not posting combat highlights, let me know>
On the 12/17-12/18 turn cycle, I had sent an invasion force to Kuantan from Kota Baru. It was well screened by surface assets, but when the bombers came screaming out of Singapore I had at most two nates flying cap, sometimes none. Lost a transport or two, and took some other damage. Many of the raids were unescorted and would have been chewed up by even a modest cap.
I thought I had adequate LR CAP so I loaded my "safety save". I verified that my two nate units were indeed set to LRCAP. One had 40 planes and was set to 50%, one was 18 planes and set to 40%. However, I didn't have drop tanks set to the 40 plane unit. Since Kuantan is 4 hexes from Kota Baru, that means once the transports were at target that squadron was no longer involved.
So the moral of today's story is
Watch them Drop Tanks!
"He who makes the fewest mistakes, tends to win"
Let's hope aztez is making a few.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
What are your plans in the SW Pacific? It seems to me a good idea is to skip Guam, and land the 144th Inf Rgt. straight on Rabaul. The Cruisers there can cover, and I wouldn't expect air opposition other than from those 2 USN CV's at sea, which it sounds like you accounted for. Guam can be taken later by a a SNLF transiting from Japan to Truk.
Can you list your beginning landing targets?
Yes, 144 sailed straight on to Rabaul. Well, almost straight, waited to link up with some other assets. It lands in the turn in aztez' inbox.
I haven't fully developed my SW pacific plan as the DEI is the main theater, but here are some of the main thoughts: On the one hand, IJN doesn't have the shipping or air assets to create fortresses all over the SW pacific. There is also a very limited amount of base force and construction engineer assets in the Truk/Kwaj are at start. On the other hand, the Allies will never be weaker than they are now. So my basic plan is to take what I can while the taking is good, more with an eye to preventing an allied buildup than to making permanent additions to the empire. So you'll hopefully be seeing a number of bases falling!
BTW, one thing to keep in mind is I'm not a beta, I'm just a poor slob like the rest of you, with about the same amount of AE experience (probably even less than some of you who may have planed some of the scenarios extensively). So if you ever look at any of my plans and say to yourself "Boy, that's either extremely clever/subtle or stupid", there's a good chance it's stupid. Any input is welcome.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
I'll be reading both sides with interest, thanks for taking the time to walk thru some of the events, have fun & good luck!
"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Air Headquarters
As probably everyone knows by now, air headquarters take on a whole new significance in AE versus Witp Classic because your Bettys and nells need to be within range of an air HQ to carry torpedoes. So, I need to think about where they are going.
As far as I've found, there are only seven available air HQs at the start, plus one that can be bought out of manchuria. If I missed any, let me know!
22nd Air Flotilla - Starts at Saigon. I loaded it right away for Kota Bharu - I don't need torpedos to handle the shipping fleeing the area, and Kompong Trach has an air HQ so I still have some torpedo coverage if the allied surface navy comes to play. This will move from Kota Baru to Singapore after capture; it'll end up staying in Singers or moving to Palembang.
3rd air division - starts at Kompong Trach. I left it there until the 22nd air flotilla was in place at kota bharu, then moved it to Bangkok to provide torpedo coverage for ships heading into Rangoon. It might stay in Bangkok or move to Rangoon, haven't figured that out yet.
11th air fleet - starts at takao, I think. Moved it to vigan. Since it has a range, it should be able to cover multiple bases as my level 4 airbases move south from Vigan. Not sure where this will go later.
2nd air division - restricted but buyable - starts in manchuria. This one is headed for Rabaul.
24 air flotilla - starts at Kwajalein, will stay there forever
5th air division, 21 air flotilla, 23rd air flotilla - start at Takao, haven't decided where they are going yet. In the near-term I might put one at Davao (freeing up the one at Vigan) and Miri (depending on how quickly the airfield gets to L4). Long term possibilities might include somewhere to cover the south DEI but out of 4E range; Soerjaba, Lunga, Midway [:D], Paramushiro Jima, and maybe Truk. Obviously I'll have to make some compromises. I haven't studied the Air HQ reinforcements yet but I doubt there's that many.
As probably everyone knows by now, air headquarters take on a whole new significance in AE versus Witp Classic because your Bettys and nells need to be within range of an air HQ to carry torpedoes. So, I need to think about where they are going.
As far as I've found, there are only seven available air HQs at the start, plus one that can be bought out of manchuria. If I missed any, let me know!
22nd Air Flotilla - Starts at Saigon. I loaded it right away for Kota Bharu - I don't need torpedos to handle the shipping fleeing the area, and Kompong Trach has an air HQ so I still have some torpedo coverage if the allied surface navy comes to play. This will move from Kota Baru to Singapore after capture; it'll end up staying in Singers or moving to Palembang.
3rd air division - starts at Kompong Trach. I left it there until the 22nd air flotilla was in place at kota bharu, then moved it to Bangkok to provide torpedo coverage for ships heading into Rangoon. It might stay in Bangkok or move to Rangoon, haven't figured that out yet.
11th air fleet - starts at takao, I think. Moved it to vigan. Since it has a range, it should be able to cover multiple bases as my level 4 airbases move south from Vigan. Not sure where this will go later.
2nd air division - restricted but buyable - starts in manchuria. This one is headed for Rabaul.
24 air flotilla - starts at Kwajalein, will stay there forever
5th air division, 21 air flotilla, 23rd air flotilla - start at Takao, haven't decided where they are going yet. In the near-term I might put one at Davao (freeing up the one at Vigan) and Miri (depending on how quickly the airfield gets to L4). Long term possibilities might include somewhere to cover the south DEI but out of 4E range; Soerjaba, Lunga, Midway [:D], Paramushiro Jima, and maybe Truk. Obviously I'll have to make some compromises. I haven't studied the Air HQ reinforcements yet but I doubt there's that many.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
A lot of changes to take onboard for sure playing Japan.
Good luck and always good to see both sides. Will be following your aar in lurker mode. This new fog of war must be a wonderful roller coaster ride in PBEM - it's fun enough with the AI!
Good luck and always good to see both sides. Will be following your aar in lurker mode. This new fog of war must be a wonderful roller coaster ride in PBEM - it's fun enough with the AI!
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
We're playing with animations off at the moment, which is a good thing. I would have a hard time watching this one play out
12/21/1941
With two Kongo class BBs his CA force would have been defeated, but one or more 8" shells hitting a fleet carrier would not have made for a good day...
Fortunately, we evade, and of course at range 0 my carrier planes have no trouble locating the SCTF and basically shred it.
Proving that sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. I expected to catch some shipping around Noumea but nothing big.
I'm a little puzzled as to why this TF was here, this is somewhere between Noumea and Luganville. But what I'm thinking is that aztez assumed that I was going to make an early grab at Lunga and/or Tulagi, and had these guys staged to make a quick run in and disrupt the landings. Either that, or he was planning to bring them as far north as Rabaul. My Rabaul landing has plenty of cover, though, a BB and a couple of CAs. So it probably would have turned out OK unless he got to the 'phibs first.
But Lunga/Tulagi will come later. I'm hoping to pick up Noumea first, although recon shows he landed a second LCU there, hopefully nothing too big. Basically after the PH strike, KB refueled at Kwajalein and split, half angled town to Noumea with several of the LCUs from the Kwaj area.
On the topic of KB,the other half went to Truk as Kwaj doesn't start with enough supply to replace planes, plus can't rearm torpedo sorties [X(]. So the three carriers with the fewest torpedos/most banged up squadrons went to Truk to replenish, then went down to cover the Rabaul invasion. They are now headed to Kwaj; I'm a little nervous about how weak everything in the east is and how easily an allied player could knock off a couple islands (even Kwaj or Roi Namur seem vulnerable to me). Granted I could take them back but I don't want to lose the nice little BFs/fortresses, plus it would be awfully annoying at this point to divert shipping and troops to that area. I want to clean up the solomons and noumea areas first, then I'll probably head east from noumea. Besides, from Kwaj maybe I can go hunting some shipping.
To round out the carrier situation, Rjuyo and taiyo met up, then went into the Celebes sea to hunt fleeing shipping. They went with a moderate SCTF; parking the SCTF in the bottleneck on the SE side of borneo was quite effective, the SCTF did more than the air, but I needed the carriers for CAP. After that, they covered the invasion of Davao and are currently covering the invasion of Menado. Note taiyo starts with no air, you'll need to scrounge up whatever claudes and zeros you think you can spare.
Zuiho and Hosho are operating north of borneo, covered the Miri invasion but have mostly steamed in circles. Heading for Singkawang now, though.
12/21/1941
Day Time Surface Combat, near Ouv'ea at 115,157, Range 24,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
CV Kaga
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku
CS Chiyoda
BB Hiei
BB Kirishima
CA Chikuma
CL Yura
DD Urakaze
DD Hamakaze
DD Mikazuki
Allied Ships
CA Louisville
CA Pensacola
CA Canberra
CL Leander
CL Achilles
CL Perth
CL Adelaide
DD Voyager
DD La Triomphant
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 24,000 yards
Japanese TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 28,000 yards...
Range increases to 30,000 yards...
Japanese Air Combat TF evades combat
With two Kongo class BBs his CA force would have been defeated, but one or more 8" shells hitting a fleet carrier would not have made for a good day...
Fortunately, we evade, and of course at range 0 my carrier planes have no trouble locating the SCTF and basically shred it.
Proving that sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. I expected to catch some shipping around Noumea but nothing big.
I'm a little puzzled as to why this TF was here, this is somewhere between Noumea and Luganville. But what I'm thinking is that aztez assumed that I was going to make an early grab at Lunga and/or Tulagi, and had these guys staged to make a quick run in and disrupt the landings. Either that, or he was planning to bring them as far north as Rabaul. My Rabaul landing has plenty of cover, though, a BB and a couple of CAs. So it probably would have turned out OK unless he got to the 'phibs first.
But Lunga/Tulagi will come later. I'm hoping to pick up Noumea first, although recon shows he landed a second LCU there, hopefully nothing too big. Basically after the PH strike, KB refueled at Kwajalein and split, half angled town to Noumea with several of the LCUs from the Kwaj area.
On the topic of KB,the other half went to Truk as Kwaj doesn't start with enough supply to replace planes, plus can't rearm torpedo sorties [X(]. So the three carriers with the fewest torpedos/most banged up squadrons went to Truk to replenish, then went down to cover the Rabaul invasion. They are now headed to Kwaj; I'm a little nervous about how weak everything in the east is and how easily an allied player could knock off a couple islands (even Kwaj or Roi Namur seem vulnerable to me). Granted I could take them back but I don't want to lose the nice little BFs/fortresses, plus it would be awfully annoying at this point to divert shipping and troops to that area. I want to clean up the solomons and noumea areas first, then I'll probably head east from noumea. Besides, from Kwaj maybe I can go hunting some shipping.
To round out the carrier situation, Rjuyo and taiyo met up, then went into the Celebes sea to hunt fleeing shipping. They went with a moderate SCTF; parking the SCTF in the bottleneck on the SE side of borneo was quite effective, the SCTF did more than the air, but I needed the carriers for CAP. After that, they covered the invasion of Davao and are currently covering the invasion of Menado. Note taiyo starts with no air, you'll need to scrounge up whatever claudes and zeros you think you can spare.
Zuiho and Hosho are operating north of borneo, covered the Miri invasion but have mostly steamed in circles. Heading for Singkawang now, though.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
The main thing about Japan seems to be the industry, and it's so tight now in AE compared to WITP that I really would be sunk if I tried running it! I do forward plan to an extent but not in terms of sitting down with a calculator and pondering port unload rates and total resource units required.
Looks hellish to wrap your brain around that, though no doubt rewarding when you succeed.
Looks hellish to wrap your brain around that, though no doubt rewarding when you succeed.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Here's an example of the importance of covering all invasions with an SCTF. I was going to detach some surface elements from KB-lite to cover the Noumea invasion, but I forgot. A damaged CA (which had "heavy fires" a few days earlier) and a DD sink 2 PBs, and worse yet scare the invasion TF away, postponing the invasion.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 25, 41
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 1,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
CL Katori
CM Tokiwa
CM Okinoshima
DD Asanagi
DD Yunagi
xAKL Shonan Maru #8
PB Tama Maru #5
PB Chokai Maru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PB Nagata Maru
PB Santos Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
xAKL Toyotsu Maru
PB Fumi Maru #3
PB Kyo Maru #6
PB Kyo Maru #7
PB Shonon Maru #11
PB Takuna Maru #6
PB Takuna Maru #7
xAK Aratama Maru
xAK Tatuharu Maru
xAK Tenyo Maru
xAK Kamikaze Maru
xAK Terushima Maru
xAK Kohoku Maru
xAK Yosyu Maru
xAK Tensyo Maru
xAK Uji Maru
xAKL Katsura Maru
xAKL Kaito Maru
xAKL Tenposan Maru
xAP Kashima Maru
Allied Ships
CA Louisville, Shell hits 20, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD La Triomphant, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Industry Notes
There's a lot of good analysis and discussion of Japanese industry going on in the War Room, and I would encourage anyone interested in industry to follow that. I think over time some optimal strategies and conventional wisdom will emerge.
However, I can't wait for the optimal strategies to be divined. When Jari asked if we were ready to kick this off, I was tempted to say no, let me study this for another month or two (and get at least one patch out [:D]), but then I figured you only live once. So, my guiding principle on industry has been to avoid really, really screwing anything up. So I've focused more on changes I consider safe rather than sweeping changes I may not fully understand.
So, here's what I've done so far. I think this is a pretty complete list. I've been making it up as I go, but if I were to start over I would probably do all of these day 1. I'll report in later (maybe on how these choices worked out.
Change Ha-5 engine to Ha-32, and double to 14
Double existing Ha-32 and Ha-33 plants. These are the engines used in Bettys, nells, vals, and sallys, among others.
Convert Nakajimi Kotobuki to Ha-32. The Kotobuki is only used for nates and you start with a 5 month supply. When I run out of engines, I'll stop producing nates.
Change Topsy plant to B5N1 kates, and expand to 16. The B5N1 isn't all that bad, and I have 97 engines that can only be used for that model. When the engines are consumed, I'll turn this plant into something else.
Expand B5N2 plant to 32.
Add 100 to Ha-35 production (zeros)
Double zero production to 112
Doubled the HI in Mouran. Not sure I need it, but thought I would give HI a teeny bump. Note I did this on an outer island so it cuts down on the resource schlepping. Although in retrospect maybe I should have looked for a place with resources and a refinery.
Increased Thalia production to 8. Probably will increase further. This makes up for the Topsy factory I converted to Kates. Thalias have a better range than topsys, and also use an engine I plan to make a lot of. Downside is a slightly reduced load capacity.
Doubled Ki-46-II Dinah production.
Doubled D3A1 Val producution
Increased Kobe vehicle factory to 48, Kanazawa vehicle factor to 16 (I'm running a vehicle point deficit, and I like my armor units)
I think I might have increased some of the smaller armament factories too, but not sure that's necessary, I'm running a surplus there.
I'm pretty happy with most of this but I'm wondering if I don't need to expand any Army bomber factories.
To date, I'm keeping up with most stuff but I am going to run out of Ha-32 engines in about a week. At that point, I'll probably halt betty production for a bit until I catch up (keeping Sally in production)
There's a lot of good analysis and discussion of Japanese industry going on in the War Room, and I would encourage anyone interested in industry to follow that. I think over time some optimal strategies and conventional wisdom will emerge.
However, I can't wait for the optimal strategies to be divined. When Jari asked if we were ready to kick this off, I was tempted to say no, let me study this for another month or two (and get at least one patch out [:D]), but then I figured you only live once. So, my guiding principle on industry has been to avoid really, really screwing anything up. So I've focused more on changes I consider safe rather than sweeping changes I may not fully understand.
So, here's what I've done so far. I think this is a pretty complete list. I've been making it up as I go, but if I were to start over I would probably do all of these day 1. I'll report in later (maybe
on how these choices worked out.Change Ha-5 engine to Ha-32, and double to 14
Double existing Ha-32 and Ha-33 plants. These are the engines used in Bettys, nells, vals, and sallys, among others.
Convert Nakajimi Kotobuki to Ha-32. The Kotobuki is only used for nates and you start with a 5 month supply. When I run out of engines, I'll stop producing nates.
Change Topsy plant to B5N1 kates, and expand to 16. The B5N1 isn't all that bad, and I have 97 engines that can only be used for that model. When the engines are consumed, I'll turn this plant into something else.
Expand B5N2 plant to 32.
Add 100 to Ha-35 production (zeros)
Double zero production to 112
Doubled the HI in Mouran. Not sure I need it, but thought I would give HI a teeny bump. Note I did this on an outer island so it cuts down on the resource schlepping. Although in retrospect maybe I should have looked for a place with resources and a refinery.
Increased Thalia production to 8. Probably will increase further. This makes up for the Topsy factory I converted to Kates. Thalias have a better range than topsys, and also use an engine I plan to make a lot of. Downside is a slightly reduced load capacity.
Doubled Ki-46-II Dinah production.
Doubled D3A1 Val producution
Increased Kobe vehicle factory to 48, Kanazawa vehicle factor to 16 (I'm running a vehicle point deficit, and I like my armor units)
I think I might have increased some of the smaller armament factories too, but not sure that's necessary, I'm running a surplus there.
I'm pretty happy with most of this but I'm wondering if I don't need to expand any Army bomber factories.
To date, I'm keeping up with most stuff but I am going to run out of Ha-32 engines in about a week. At that point, I'll probably halt betty production for a bit until I catch up (keeping Sally in production)
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Very interesting. [;)]
On my PBEM, I was much more conservative and did not doubled/changed so much things (but I am not sure to be right anyway[:D]). For example, I do not build a single B5N1 (B5N2 are on production of course). I just doubled HA-35 engines for obvious reasons.
I have the same question about army bomber factories. I was counting on you to have an answer [:D]
What did you do on naval/merchant/repair shipyards?
I doubled a big repair shipyard in order to be able to deal with the forecast damaged ships (that's also why I was not able to double so much plane factories), and stopped merchant shipyards.
On my PBEM, I was much more conservative and did not doubled/changed so much things (but I am not sure to be right anyway[:D]). For example, I do not build a single B5N1 (B5N2 are on production of course). I just doubled HA-35 engines for obvious reasons.
I have the same question about army bomber factories. I was counting on you to have an answer [:D]
What did you do on naval/merchant/repair shipyards?
I doubled a big repair shipyard in order to be able to deal with the forecast damaged ships (that's also why I was not able to double so much plane factories), and stopped merchant shipyards.
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
Note to self. Invading at Noumea a bad idea. Why not land at La Foa and walk the one hex? I lost about 3 PBs and might lose an xAK or two. Not a game threatening loss, but unnecessary. Sigh. I wish I were smarter.
TF 92 encountersmine field at Noumea (115,160)
Japanese Ships
DD Urakaze
CA Chikuma, Mine hits 1
1 mine cleared
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Invasion Support action off Noumea
14 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
xAKL Shonan Maru #8, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CM Tokiwa
CL Katori
PB Takuna Maru #7
PB Takuna Maru #6, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Shonon Maru #11, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Kyo Maru #7
PB Kyo Maru #6, Shell hits 1
PB Fumi Maru #3
PB Nagata Maru, Shell hits 2
PB Tama Maru #5
Japanese ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
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Invasion Support action off Noumea
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft
10 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
xAKL Shonan Maru #8, heavy fires, heavy damage
CM Tokiwa
CL Katori
PB Takuna Maru #7
PB Kyo Maru #7, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Kyo Maru #6, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PB Fumi Maru #3
PB Nagata Maru
PB Tama Maru #5
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Invasion Support action off Noumea
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft
5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
xAK Kohoku Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
CM Tokiwa
CL Katori
PB Takuna Maru #7
PB Fumi Maru #3
PB Nagata Maru
PB Tama Maru #5
RE: JFB ONLY: erstad(J) versus aztez (A) - An occasional AAR
On my PBEM, I was much more conservative and did not doubled/changed so much things (but I am not sure to be right anyway). For example, I do not build a single B5N1 (B5N2 are on production of course). I just doubled HA-35 engines for obvious reasons.
I figure the expansion cost isn't all that bad, it's really the supply eaten on repair that counts. And I could decide not to repair them all the way. I'll be reassessing in the next game week or so.
I'll get right on that for you [:D] Seriously, I do plan to take a harder look at that soon based on the loss rate I'm taking. In general I don't lose a lot of army bombers but then every so often an unescorted strike goes in (in some cases because my orders are suboptimal, in some cases "just because") and then I lose a pile.I have the same question about army bomber factories. I was counting on you to have an answer
What did you do on naval/merchant/repair shipyards?
I doubled a big repair shipyard in order to be able to deal with the forecast damaged ships (that's also why I was not able to double so much plane factories), and stopped merchant shipyards.
Haven't done anything yet. There's enough shipyard space for maybe 600-700K tonnage at start, I'm probably using a quarter of that. But as you note, it will get worse. A good idea to think about this, I hadn't given it much thought. Keep them thoughts coming...
I am absolutely keeping the merchant shipyards going, we need those transports, plus I think some minor naval ships like CVEs might use the merchie points. I would suggest turning those back on. Note that merchant points (like naval and HI) accumulate, so if you produce them now you can use them tomorrow or use them in 1945; only reason I could see to shut down now would be if you think you will never use them and I can pertty much guarantee that won't happen.