That is interesting, look at all the losses for friendly fire, fuel accidents, grounding, etc.
I don't think the Japanese lost alot of ships to PTs either. So, both those things are either because there wasn't alot of surface combat really involving PTs, or the combat was often inconclusive with nobody hurt. Probably a combination of the two.
I think like many there is a PT boat problem, I don't think the fix is to make PTs more vulnerable to Japanese fire, I think it's to make them much less deadly (and maybe suffer more accidents).
That is interesting, look at all the losses for friendly fire, fuel accidents, grounding, etc.
I don't think the Japanese lost alot of ships to PTs either. So, both those things are either because there wasn't alot of surface combat really involving PTs, or the combat was often inconclusive with nobody hurt. Probably a combination of the two.
I think like many there is a PT boat problem, I don't think the fix is to make PTs more vulnerable to Japanese fire, I think it's to make them much less deadly (and maybe suffer more accidents).
After reading a little more on the subject, I would think the best portrayal of PT boats would be of a disruptive nature, ie they cause enemy TF's to use more move points or slow down, burn more op points, increase fatique/reduce morale of surface ships, especially cargo type ships. They shoud be a huge hinderance to barge operations (not sure if abstract barges even exist in AE). If used in conjunction with capital ships, they should cause screening destroyers headaches, ie not effective at screening due to dodging the mosquito boats etc...perhaps not doable with the current code, but maybe a future enhancement...
Kirk Lazarus: I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude! Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.
A VERY long time ago I read that there was no record of an American PT boat sinking a enemy warship, of any type. They did have some small successes against merchant shipping and were successful at interdicting barge traffic. The results being reported here appear to be strictly at odds with history.
Doesn't curvature of the earth factor into these sightings, especially one 21,000 yards away?
Just simply using Pythagorean theorem says that a guy in a PT (lets' be generous and say he's 5 meters off sea level) can see 8730 yards in IDEAL conditions. Playing around with the numbers, to see 21,000 yds would require a person to be 31 yards off sea level. So unless PTs had 100 foot perches, it is quite impossible for a PT to do a sighting past 9,000 yards.
Of course this assumes absolutely CLEAR line of sight, not taking into account weather, haze, lighting.
Used avg Earth radius of 6,372,797 m = 6,969,376 yds.
A PT boat's sighting range depends on what he's looking at. A sub or low floating barge is harder to see than a carrier or BB with its high pagoda mast, and of course the plume of exhaust from the stack can often be seen further than the actual ship.
Didn't the PT boats cripple Abukuma during the Leyte Gulf battle? The torpedo went through the entire TF and hit the CL on the far side.
sorry guys...i meant to post this earlier, as these results were rather insane. I know getting a PT inside 1,000 yards is optimal for a PT, really, I want to know how they are geting in seemingly so easily. Or is it just a fluke, or am I a victim of FoW? Does FoW affect combat reports?
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Night Time Surface Combat, near San Fernando at 80,74, Range 1,000 Yards
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses
Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
PC Sumire, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
E Saga, Shell hits 2
xAK Kenyo Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Yasuteru Maru
xAP Kamo Maru, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF begins to get underway
Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 89% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
PT Q-112 engages CA Suzuya at 1,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages PT Q-111 at 1,000 yards
PC Sumire engages PT-41 at 1,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAP Kamo Maru at 1,000 yards
PT-34 engages xAP Kamo Maru at 1,000 yards
PC Sumire engages PT-31 at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages PT-31 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-111 at 2,000 yards
PC Sumire sunk by PT-41 at 2,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages PT-33 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-112 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-111 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAP Kamo Maru at 2,000 yards
CA Suzuya sunk by PT-35 at 2,000 yards
PT-35 engages xAK Kenyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-31 engages xAK Kenyo Maru at 2,000 yards
xAP Kamo Maru sunk by PT Q-112 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-111 at 2,000 yards
PT-41 engages E Saga at 2,000 yards
PT-35 engages E Saga at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT-34 at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages E Saga at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT-31 at 2,000 yards
Leon V. orders Allied TF to disengage
E Saga engages PT Q-112 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-111 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT-35 at 2,000 yards
E Saga engages PT-34 at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages E Saga at 2,000 yards
PT-31 engages E Saga at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-112 at 5,000 yards
E Saga engages PT Q-111 at 5,000 yards
E Saga engages PT-41 at 5,000 yards
E Saga engages PT-31 at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...
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Night Time Surface Combat, near San Fernando at 80,74, Range 1,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
CA Mikuma, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kagero, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
TB Hato, Shell hits 20, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Seattle Maru, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAP Taizan Maru
Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 89% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
TB Hato engages PT Q-113 at 1,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages DD Isokaze at 1,000 yards
TB Hato engages MTB 11 at 1,000 yards
TB Hato sunk by MTB 10 at 1,000 yards
MTB 9 engages DD Isokaze at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
DD Isokaze sunk by MTB 11 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 10 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 9 at 2,000 yards
MTB 8 engages CA Mikuma at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 7 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
DD Kagero engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 10 at 2,000 yards
DD Kagero engages MTB 9 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 7 at 2,000 yards
DD Kagero engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 26 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Seattle Maru at 2,000 yards
MTB 7 engages xAK Seattle Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Kagero sunk by MTB 12 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 10 at 2,000 yards
MTB 7 sunk by CA Mikuma at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
MTB 12 engages xAK Seattle Maru at 3,000 yards
MTB 10 engages xAK Seattle Maru at 3,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages PT Q-113 at 3,000 yards
MTB 8 engages xAP Taizan Maru at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 26 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages MTB 8 at 9,000 yards
Task forces break off...
Maybe all those 25mm AA which will shred PTs at 1000 yards should be set to DP guns. I notice in the first reports the allies sighting the Japanese but not for the Japanese.2 CAs ,3 DD down etc Forget Iowas ,Essex just get supply to the PI and build PTs.
Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
PC Sumire, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
E Saga, Shell hits 2
xAK Kenyo Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Yasuteru Maru
xAP Kamo Maru, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
Um, am I more lacking in math skill than usually, or are there realy 16 torpedo hits from 7 PT-boats?
"Tell the King: After the battle my head is at his disposal, during the battle he may allow me to use it!
GenLt. Seydlitz to Frederik the Great after disobeying an order to attack
British MTB's usually carried two torpedoes (one per tube) with (sometimes!) two spare fish for reloads.
US PT boats normally carried two tubes with space (again sometimes!) for two spare fish for reloads. Not that reloading was usually possible in a pitched night battle but there are a few cases in the Solomons of PT boats after a hard nights action finding a nice quiet creek or inslet to hold up for a few hours, patch the holes, refuel and also crank two fresh fish into the tubes.
There were also a few field modifications to increase the number of tubes to four. These definitely did happen but were not very successful (decreased the performacne & sea-worthiness of the boats, also the extra tubes sometimes came loose)
I think this line from the combat report is the key to what happened here.
I've noticed in my game vs. the AI that task forces which are unloading cargo are much more susceptible to being surprised and therefore suffering extraordinary damage results. Basically shooting fish in a barrel. Damage tends to be magnified when the target is stationary.
The way I read this result is the PT-boats, were spotted fairly far out due to the high level of moonlight, but were able to close the range to 1,000 yards due to the escorts being tied to the merchies which were unloading cargo. Essentially the escort was caught with its pants down.
Tying your valuable surface assets to troop and supply convoys is a recipe for disaster.
