to be (sunk) or not to be (sunk) this is the question

[loricas]

in the opening days of my game as Allied vs AI CV Kaga was it by a torpedo....same days after in the ship sunk summary appared as sunked 12/12/41. (FOW ON)

to check another question i put FOW OFF for a couple of turn and...CV Kaga is not in the ship sunked now. (i open a turn as japan and really the Kaga is in Osaka shipyard)

so bug or intentional that sametimes you think a specific ship sunk and is still alive??

if not intentional..please don't fix it VERY VERY FUN

[erstad]

Intentional

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: loricas

in the opening days of my game as Allied vs AI CV Kaga was it by a torpedo....same days after in the ship sunk summary appared as sunked 12/12/41. (FOW ON)

to check another question i put FOW OFF for a couple of turn and...CV Kaga is not in the ship sunked now. (i open a turn as japan and really the Kaga is in Osaka shipyard)

so bug or intentional that sametimes you think a specific ship sunk and is still alive??

if not intentional..please don't fix it VERY VERY FUN

Check operational reports, sometimes there's corrections like Previous report of sinking of CV Wasp incorrect. Ship sighted and engaged at 116, 137

So far I've sunk CV Wasp three times [:D]

This is good FOW. But when you don't know when your own ships are been hit, that is very bad FOW. [:-]

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

This is good FOW. But when you don't know when your own ships are been hit, that is very bad FOW. [:-]

I'm just re-reading Churchill's history of WWII at the moment, and only this morning came across his description of an incident in November 1939 when the admiralty intercepted a U-boat signal reporting the successful sinking of a British cruiser. They tried to contact all friendly ships in the area and HMS Norfolk failed to report in. So Churchill and his staff spent the night thinking they'd lost a heavy cruiser, which in fact turned up fit and well (though a little damp from a torpedo near-miss) the next day. Friendly FOW is a reality.

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

ORIGINAL: Puhis

This is good FOW. But when you don't know when your own ships are been hit, that is very bad FOW. [:-]

I'm just re-reading Churchill's history of WWII at the moment, and only this morning came across his description of an incident in November 1939 when the admiralty intercepted a U-boat signal reporting the successful sinking of a British cruiser. They tried to contact all friendly ships in the area and HMS Norfolk failed to report in. So Churchill and his staff spent the night thinking they'd lost a heavy cruiser, which in fact turned up fit and well (though a little damp from a torpedo near-miss) the next day. Friendly FOW is a reality.

[&:] Nice story, but it has nothing to do with this game.

You are totally missing the point. Maybe Churchill thought cruiser was lost. Cruiser's commander definitely didn't think so. In this game player is high commander and TF commander. In this case friendly FOW is just stupid. Every turn I can check every ship if there is damage. So why not just tell me when the ships is hit.

This friendy FOW needs to be corrected.

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

[&:] Nice story, but it has nothing to do with this game.

You are totally missing the point. Maybe Churchill thought cruiser was lost. Cruiser's commander definitely didn't think so. In this game player is high commander and TF commander. In this case friendly FOW is just stupid. Every turn I can check every ship if there is damage. So why not just tell me when the ships is hit.

This friendy FOW needs to be corrected.

I don't agree. You're clearly not playing the task force commander, as is indicated by the fact that although you can assign a mission to a task force you're ultimately not in control of its actions. The mechanics of retirement and reaction, aggression checks, choice of targets for airstrikes etc ensure that TFs act according to local circumstances, dependent on the personality of the local commander, and not necessarily according to your intentions.

I know that friendly fog of war in any game does irritate some players - players in general like complete control - but the fact is that commanders historically never had perfect information about their own forces, let alone their opponents'. As a game that clearly emphasises accuracy more than playability, I'm glad that AE does reflect that in some way.

[Zebedee]

I can understand the frustration of seeing combat reports (or failing to see them) which don't reveal the true damage done to your own forces. But I do have to say I really, really like that.

Maybe I'm a masochist, but there's a part of me which does appreciate the suspense of not knowing exactly what has gone and what damage has been done until I then go and check things out. With ships and subs, it's not that hard to keep tabs on things by using the filters available on the menus at the top of the screen. A quick check every turn is part of my routine in any case because I keep an eye on system damage to make sure I pull ships out of line when required even when the damage is just from wear and tear.

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

I know that friendly fog of war in any game does irritate some players - players in general like complete control - but the fact is that commanders historically never had perfect information about their own forces, let alone their opponents'. As a game that clearly emphasises accuracy more than playability, I'm glad that AE does reflect that in some way.

Yes, it is irritating when you lose 2 ships per week without knowing what hit them and when. And then your carriers are been hit...

This system is not even logical. I do get messages of patrol planes, but not that it drops a bomb. I mean think about it, TF commander reports a plane but not the damage it did. [&:]

Like I said, I can check every TF. So there is no real friendly FOW. It is just a bug.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

You are totally missing the point. Maybe Churchill thought cruiser was lost. Cruiser's commander definitely didn't think so. In this game player is high commander and TF commander. In this case friendly FOW is just stupid. Every turn I can check every ship if there is damage. So why not just tell me when the ships is hit.

This friendy FOW needs to be corrected.

If you have a save that shows what you consider to be a FOW bug, please post it (and an explanation of what you believe to be wrong).

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Yes, it is irritating when you lose 2 ships per week without knowing what hit them and when. And then your carriers are been hit...

This system is not even logical. I do get messages of patrol planes, but not that it drops a bomb. I mean think about it, TF commander reports a plane but not the damage it did. [&:]

Like I said, I can check every TF. So there is no real friendly FOW. It is just a bug.

Going back to my earlier story, the U-boat captain fired a spread of torpedos from periscope depth at HMS Norfolk and one exploded a few hundred yards off the ship's stern. He saw the ship completely obscured by an explosion and then dived immediately to avoid possible counter-attack. When there were no depth-charges he returned to the scene of the crime and found an empty sea, so he concluded that the cruiser had sunk and reported that to HQ.

Meanwhile Norfolk failed to spot the periscope or the torpedo tracks and her officers decided that the explosion was a bomb dropped by an aircraft hidden by cloud. So Doenitz thought he'd sunk a cruiser, Churchill thought he'd lost a cruiser, and the cruiser thought it was under air attack!

When Churchill's team were tracking the Graf Spee as she raided allied shipping from the South Atlantic to the Indian Ocean and back again, many of her victims didn't get a chance to radio in contact reports (or the reports werern't received). So often they weren't tracking her based on precise reports (e.g. "under attack by Graf Spee at X degrees Y minutes North, A degrees B minutes East") but by assuming that a ship several days overdue was probably sunk, and that Graf Spee was somewhere in the area.

That's the messy reality behind the scads of precise information we have available, in nearly real-time, on our screens.

So I don't know whether the "friendly FOW" is a design intention, or simply a side-effect of puttinging FOW into a single battle report intended for both players to read. But that's why I'm not terribly sympathetic to people complaining about it, or demanding more accurate information or more control. The fact is, we should really have less!

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston
But that's why I'm not terribly sympathetic to people complaining about it, or demanding more accurate information or more control. The fact is, we should really have less!

You really don't have to read the combat and op reports. And you can close your eyes during resolution phase. It's that easy!