Can Turkey REALLY win?

[MarshallEllis]

Hey guys:

I am playing around with 1.07 a bit (AI pp and vp bonuses gone) but I am still curious as to how Turkey can really win??? Without bonuses I am still getting beat around 1812 by France. Given that I'm still not giving AI bonuses how could Turkey win? I was thinking that you simply needed to defeat Ru and/or Au to achieve victory but I have done this and still losing???
What strategy(s) can Turkey use?

NOTE: I am still giving a neg bid to hard AI on startup (1-2%)

[Jimmer]

In real life, yes Turkey can win. Against AI, possibly not. The difference is that Turkey can make real allies in a real game. Against the AI, it seems that alliances are made to break, which only hurts Turkey.
 
In a real game, Turkey only needs something like 7 victory points above the middle 7/turn section. That's easily attainable winning only one war and losing (surrenduring) in 3-4. It's absolutely essential, though, that Turkey manipulate for PP, giving up manpower (only). Without doing that, she winds up losing the manpower anyhow (not enough money), but takes forever to get out of instability. I would not play Turkey in a game not using manipulation.

[obsidiandrag]

Are you kidding.. the turk can win easily.. the main thing  is to take the minors (and possible any (ANY) of italy - especially the little ones like papacy..)  To some the papacy is chump change but to Turkey (usualy with French backing) its a windfall 5/1 which is 20% of thier normal national income...
 
Work hard on the ottoman (against the AI its easy as spain will at most move to Algeria) keep forces back for the fight against russia (use feudals and only 1 regular corps for Egypt - keep it conquered to build turks until you have constantinople full then free to build thier troops (not cav yet)..
 
I don't like to garrison all capitols at the start (especially with Turkey or Spain) as you just dont have enough troops for that..  Let Russia come to you then pounce with Feudals.. dont poke the bear wait for it...
 
This way off the beginning you can place all 3 corps and the Syrian to take  minors (unless russia is on the border) in which case leave one in the east and one in the west with potential (down) feudal backing.. its winter and they wont get there on land in a hurry.. watch the naval set up for russia though if against human, AI is still too stupid for that one...
 
OD

[borner]

i agree not with the AI running things. Turkey needs money. You pick your side, Fr or GB, and exchange friendship for cash. Something you cannot do with an AI game.  If Spain goes with France, you can either use that as leverage with GB, or join in and Split italy and NA between the two of you. Russia almost has to attack you at some point. He needs the PP's. If you go pro-France, you may get more money but unless Spain is also pro-French, you can forget the Ottoman. The one great thing in this version from the Turk poinjt of view, is allied minors come under your control if attacked. In one game I got the ottoman by taking Egypt, but then left the minors over to and including algeria allied. Russia declared, and presto. INstant Ottoman with 20 free cav. Too bad that game cratered due to bugs.

[easterner]

Turk strategy:

Form Ottoman Empire as #1 goal. Once achieved the troops fill out Egy & Syr Corps then others. Send to Europe to take losses. Don't be afraid of surrendering COND if hard pressed by aggressive alliance.

#2 goal Conq Dalmatia and Caucasian minors.

Occupy every city in Russ to force UNCON, can be done as AI sleeps alot on Rus Front inviting defeat in detail.

Then do same to Aus (harder).

Early Fr alliance helpful as you get to call to Allies and it gets somnolent Fr AI in the game.

[borner]

not to insult the AI, but NEVER thing that the AI plays the game anywhere near the way and average or better player will. In this example, the way Turkey is played cannot be done with the AI. However, you have the chace to be far more successful against the AI than in a "real" game, as easterner posted, the AI usually leaves you alone.

[pzgndr]

not to insult the AI, but NEVER thing that the AI plays the game anywhere near the way and average or better player will.

The current AI obviously needs work. It can be improved and enhanced, and with difficulty settings should become challenging. What the AI needs is some grand strategy decision points, like Turkey goes with either France or GB depending on conditions, and then appropriate strategic/operational planning based on the grand strategy decisions. This isn't rocket science. If Marshall is willing to keep working on this over time and implement AI enhancements, the computer opponent should be OK someday. Not to insult the average player, but I seem to recall reports of human players doing stupid things, cheating, and quiting games... The AI can't be THAT bad. [;)]

[ndrose]

The AI has started to do a few basic things right, but it lacks long-term planning. I don't even mean the grand strategic stuff, but an event horizon beyond this month.

For instance, the AI will now often move to reconquer provinces previously lost to an opponent it's at war with. But generally only if their capitals are in reach already. When it gets there, it seems to follow a rote process (besiege, kill garrison, drop AI garrison, move to next task), without knowing "why" it's doing it. This becomes important in the case of Turkey especially, as this is what I see:

AI Turkey sends feudal corps to besiege lost provincial capital, breaches, kills my garrison. (Good work, AI!) Oops, feudals can't drop garrisons. Then instead of leaving the corps to effect conquest, it moves away to the next task, and I keep the province.

I've seen the same thing with other countries if they send a cav corps, but it really bites Turkey.

[MarshallEllis]

Thanks for the help!
I agree that the AI is tactically performing better but still lacks the long term strategic focus! I am working on that.