questions before I start a pbem game

[jack54]

hi all
two questions about pbem games...(I'm waiting for the patch)
1-are there replays for each player? In other words will I see battles from my opponents turn,(within the fow of course),or will there be a battle reports screen and a new front line similar to the naval reports?

2-Is F11/F12 available pbem,If so when opponent uses them will we know about it?

Didn't really see anything about battle or turn replays in the manual perhaps I just missed it.

I tried to answer this question myself by setting up a pbem alone but was unable to open player two turn.didn't really want to bother everyone with this. thanks

[Chocolino]

Hello,

a PBEM is a very rewarding experience compared to playing the AI. I can only encourage you to go ahead. Many things that you can get away with against the AI will be punished by a human player.

F11/F12 is available in PBEM and required as a method of taking control of a country that so far was handled by the AI (e.g. after an attack the human opponent usually takes over minors). You have to trust your opponent not to use F11/F12 for anything inappropriate. But you have to do this anyways since there are many other ways of cheating too. There was an earlier post by Chuck on the subject who brought it to a point (maybe he can repost it as I forgot the Subject title of the thread)

But there is no replay option and you rely on the information that you find in reports. Even that info can be on the slim side I admit. Many improvement suggestions have been made in this regard and are considered by development (let's hope for the best).

[jack54]

thanks chocolino,

at least I know what to expect;a turn replay would be awesome.

I'll hope for the best, we'll probably use F11 for some house rules since it's there;still would love to see it mentioned in a report though!

thanks again!

[Joram]

Actually, that's a fantastic idea. Just have a report saying what it was used for in PBEM. That should dissuade any potential cheaters.

[doomtrader]

If somebody would like to cheat there is always an option to make changes directly in the files.
Moddability brings it's consequences.

[cpdeyoung]

Chocolino mentions a previous post of mine.

I don't want to recap it all here, but has it missed your notice that all data files are basically text.

The answer : Don't play this game for money.

Seriously, this is a fun game. Play honestly, expect the same of others. Let's not ask for the game to be "armored" against the occasional cheat. Any attempt will allow them to justify their cheating as the reward for "hacking" the system. Now you would be taking candy from a baby.

This game, and RtV, seem to have attracted a great crew of history buffs, and honest gamers. Enjoy.

Chuck

[Joram]

Hmm, good point lol. Guess you're just going to have to trust them!

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

If somebody would like to cheat there is always an option to make changes directly in the files.
Moddability brings it's consequences.

Not necessarily...Most games compare that both players have the same data/mod files, then encrypt saves. Even with that you can more or less always reload "alternate turns" games but more is pretty difficult, and for simultaneous turns games (a la CM or Dominions) there's no easy cheating.
I expect all pbem game systems to have at least these rather easy to do anti-cheat measures.

[doomtrader]

Indeed, we can spend the time to create data encryption system, but my tip is that: 'don't play with those you can't trust'
It is only a game and it's made for fun, so have fun.

[cpdeyoung]

Re : PDiFolco's expectation of anticheat provisions.

1. A lot of work for the programmers.
2. Open files allow changing things that are special cases, such as my monthly change from 100% to 150% production for the Germans.
3. Open files allow peer help with bugs and mods.

If you try to armor the system someone will find a way. Virtual machines, snapshots, multiple machines, soft ice, whatever. Why bother letting the hackers have their fun. Some players have already said that the modding was as much fun as playing. The hackers think beating anticheat is as much fun as playing. Let them hack another game.

Chuck

[Chocolino]

3. Open files allow peer help with bugs and mods.

Chuck, all your points are correct. I just wanted to underline the above "peer help" as a key advantage since I benefited from it myself several times - thanks to you. It can be pretty annoying if you get stuck after playing a PBEM game for weeks and then have to abandon it because it hangs.

In the same context I've just seen that Uxbridge made a good recommendation to Chamgagne on how to change the files to avoid the event related "Kiev unit freezing" problem without waiting for a fix.

So in summary this point is not to be underestimated.

[jack54]

sorry folks didn't mean to start a big thing about cheating;its been my experience that most wargamers are honest.I perfer to examine the stategies and see what works and what doesn't work If I lose, I lose, so be it, I will hopefully learn.As I've said before I probably will use F11 for some house rules,increased diplomacy, taking over attacked neutrals ect. I just thought the info would be good,( F11 used turn 9 russia dp now 200,) not a biggie though.


In my opinion moddability comes before security, so please no lockdown!

[Ritterkrieg_slith]

Great game! Thanks to the programers and designers!

One question regarding PBEM...where the heck are those cool events and a turn replay...looking through the reports is oh so tedious...!

I really think the turn replay is needed as you want to see the moves made by your opponent and it is very hard for those of us that do not have the photograpic memory to remember where everything WAS![:@]

The events thingy too needs a tweak...I have not seen a single event in 5 turns as allies...whose making these decisions?!?
Ritterkrieg

[doomtrader]

Hi Ritterkrieg,

In PBEM game, events are displayed after the turn of the last player (Order is: Axis, Allies, Commies, Neutrals).
He has got a possibility to save the game and send it to you to make your choice.

[jack54]

hi again,

does this mean possible multiple e-mails per turn,yikes!

also the lack of turn replay is quite scary,but I'll have to wait and see.
most wargames I play have a replay,but they're all two sided,(whether wego or ugoigo)
the multiply sides in tow (axis,allies,commies and neutrals) causes some difficulty there I'm sure.

[elmo3]

Just curious if any kind of replay was ever added or any improvements to previous turn reporting?  It's not fun, for me at least, to have to scour the map trying to figure out what happened in my opponents turn.  Thanks.

[Tomokatu]

does this mean possible multiple e-mails per turn,yikes!

Yes OR, in line with the philosophy of "trust your fellow gamer" you can specify in house rules that a player presented with a choice for his opponent should make the best possible choice in his opponent's best interests OR either or both players may set a doctrine for the opponent to follow in making choices on his behalf.
 
Example: At various times in some games, the British player may be presented with the option to put certain ships into service at a cost in PPs. If you've already wiped the KM from the seas, send a doctrine instruction to the German that he is to accept no further capital ships into your service until further notice.

[elmo3]

Can someone explain what reports you get in a PBEM game or post a screen shot showing what is reported from the previous turn about the fighting that took place.  Thanks.

[Tomokatu]

OK These two files show the kind of reports.
Technique
Press the "Reports" button at bottom left
Select the kind of report you want
Select the country.

Watch the upper left panel.

[Tomokatu]

The range of reports is in the upper left panel.
Note that you can only see reports for the countries you control.
Note also that the reports are couched in real-life terms, not precision numeric calculations. You can look at THAT sort of analysis in the combat phase before you commit to a combat - but not after