How would WW2 have turned out if started later?

[Shawkhan]

Hitler missed the boat by not starting war in 1938. It was then that the ratio of forces most favored Axis success. The Germans had 5 panzer and 6 motorized divisions at this time compared to only 3 Allied Lt tank divisions and 3 motorized divisions. More importantly perhaps, is that the British Spitfire and the French DeWoitine fighters were missing in action. The air war and possible Sealion invasion of England would have been much more feasible then.
Contrary to 'popular' opinion, Chamberlain knew that Hitler was lying and 'Peace for our time' was simply not possible. Chamberlain was well aware of the total unpreparedness of Britain and knew he was not ready for war. The extra year of preparation he was able to get from the Munich agreement helped the Aliies to even the odds, not enough to save France of course, but enough to stave off total German victory.
If Hitler had waited until 1940 the odds would have perhaps been even, and war even later would have resulted in stalemate or worse for the Third Reich. If he had waited until 1942 he probably would have faced a Russian invasion as Zhukov already had the plan of attack on Germany filed and ready for use by 1941.

[morvwilson]

ORIGINAL: Shawkhan

More importantly perhaps, is that the British Spitfire and the French DeWoitine fighters were missing in action. The air war and possible Sealion invasion of England would have been much more feasible then.

While the Spitfire and more numerous Hurricane fighters did contribute greatly to GB's air power, I don't think they were the decisive reason operation sealion was indefinitely postponed.
It was simple logistics.
Germany just did not have the shipping to cross the chanel with a large enough force to take the British isles and keep that force supplied. If they tried, they would have been in a position where the loss of a single ship could be catastrophic. This was why the Germans tried so hard to knock the RAF out of action.

The biggest thing that delayed the Normandy invasion was having enough LST's to carry troops and supplies over the chanel.

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: Shawkhan

Hitler missed the boat by not starting war in 1938. It was then that the ratio of forces most favored Axis success. The Germans had 5 panzer and 6 motorized divisions at this time compared to only 3 Allied Lt tank divisions and 3 motorized divisions. More importantly perhaps, is that the British Spitfire and the French DeWoitine fighters were missing in action. The air war and possible Sealion invasion of England would have been much more feasible then.
Contrary to 'popular' opinion, Chamberlain knew that Hitler was lying and 'Peace for our time' was simply not possible. Chamberlain was well aware of the total unpreparedness of Britain and knew he was not ready for war. The extra year of preparation he was able to get from the Munich agreement helped the Aliies to even the odds, not enough to save France of course, but enough to stave off total German victory.
If Hitler had waited until 1940 the odds would have perhaps been even, and war even later would have resulted in stalemate or worse for the Third Reich. If he had waited until 1942 he probably would have faced a Russian invasion as Zhukov already had the plan of attack on Germany filed and ready for use by 1941.

Interestingly.... Turtledove the top Alternate Fiction writers started what looks be a new series... "Hitlers war" which takes up on what if chamberlain had NOT...and the war started EARLY...

some twists in it like poland on Germanys side

[Shawkhan]

One of Hitler's three major regrets, as related to Martin Bormann in 1945, was that he wished he had pushed the allies to war in 1938 over the Munich incident.

[Southernland]

If the war had of commenced later it would certainly have lead to problems in one area, that of tanks.  1941 the Sovs had only just began committing T34s to battle, and encounters with them lead the Germans to producing the Panther over the Tiger, ie angled armour over brute force.   Had Op barbarossa commenced later the Soviets would have more of these deadly tanks in the feild whilst the Germans would have had PzIIIs & IVs plus Tigers and still would have faced the two year design/tooling/production delay before they could start producing Panthers. 
 
Similarly the Sovs would have had more time to reflect on and act on the lessons learnt during the Finnish Winter war and more time to recover from the officer purges
 
In the Pacific we can assume the Japanese would still have attacked Hawaii in a similar timeframe and would have faced the might of the US plus the European nations unaffected by a European war
 
In many ways the period 1939-1941 was the ideal time for the Axis offensive

[teamgene]

ORIGINAL: Shawkhan

Hitler missed the boat by not starting war in 1938. It was then that the ratio of forces most favored Axis success. The Germans had 5 panzer and 6 motorized divisions at this time compared to only 3 Allied Lt tank divisions and 3 motorized divisions. More importantly perhaps, is that the British Spitfire and the French DeWoitine fighters were missing in action. The air war and possible Sealion invasion of England would have been much more feasible then.
Contrary to 'popular' opinion, Chamberlain knew that Hitler was lying and 'Peace for our time' was simply not possible. Chamberlain was well aware of the total unpreparedness of Britain and knew he was not ready for war. The extra year of preparation he was able to get from the Munich agreement helped the Aliies to even the odds, not enough to save France of course, but enough to stave off total German victory.
If Hitler had waited until 1940 the odds would have perhaps been even, and war even later would have resulted in stalemate or worse for the Third Reich. If he had waited until 1942 he probably would have faced a Russian invasion as Zhukov already had the plan of attack on Germany filed and ready for use by 1941.

The panzer divisions in 1938 were made up of Panzer I and II's and would not have had the impact that they got by being able to augment them with Pz38's and heavy support Pz IV's they had later. The Pz III were too few to matter in either case. Also, there would have been a lack of 88's that were used so well by Guderian in France as a support weapon as well as AA.

Likewise if it started later, Russia may or may not have been stronger. I am not convinced that the T34 would have fully replaced the BT series as it was too heavy for the average bridge in Russia at the time. Russia had broken up its armored units after lessons learned in Finland, so possible it would have just meant a lot of captured T34's at the start? However, there would have been more PzIII's and if later, may have had the long barrel 50mm which could handle the early T34 at close range. Germany would have lost its edge in the air though.

However, Italy could possibly had been more of a factor in the war with a later start.

Great speech of 1940, almost totally forgotten:

At the end of five months of war one thing has become more and more clear. It is that Germany seeks to establish a domination over the world completely different from any known in history.

The domination at which the Nazis aim is not limited to the displacement of the balance of power and the imposition of supremacy of one nation. It seeks the systematic and total destruction of those conquered by Hitler, and it does not treaty with the nations which he has subdued. He destroys them. He takes from them their whole political and economic existence and seeks even to deprive them of their history and their culture. He wishes to consider them only as vital space and a vacant territory over which he has every right.

The human beings who constitute these nations are for him only cattle. He orders their massacre or their migration. He compels them to make room for their conquerors. He does not even take the trouble to impose any war tribute on them. He just takes all their wealth, and, to prevent any revolt, he wipes out their leaders and scientifically seeks the physical and moral degradation of those whose independence he has taken away.

Under this domination, in thousands of towns and villages in Europe there are millions of human beings now living in misery which, some months ago, they could never have imagined. Austria, Bohemia, Slovakia and Poland are only lands of despair. Their whole peoples have been deprived of the means of moral and material happiness. Subdued by treachery or brutal violence, they have no other recourse than to work for their executioners who grant them scarcely enough to assure the most miserable existence.

There is being created a world of masters and slaves in the image of Germany herself. For, while Germany is crushing beneath her tyranny the men of every race and language, she is herself being crushed beneath her own servitude and her domination mania. The German worker and peasant are the slaves of their Nazi masters while the worker and peasant of Bohemia and Poland have become in turn slaves of these slaves. Before this first realization of a mad dream, the whole world might shudder.

Nazi propaganda is entirely founded on the exploitation of the weakness of the human heart. It does not address itself to the strong or the heroic. It tells the rich they are going to lose their money. It tells the worker this is a rich man's war. It tells the intellectual and the artist that all he cherished is being destroyed by war. It tells the lover of good things that soon he would have none of them. It says to the Christian believer: "How can you accept this massacre?" It tells the adventurer - "a man like you should profit by the misfortunes of your country."

It is those who speak this way who have destroyed or confiscated all the wealth they could lay their hands on, who have reduced their workers to slavery, who have ruined all intellectual liberty, who have imposed terrible privations on millions of men and women and who have made murder their law. What do contradictions matter to them if they can lower the resistance of those who wish to bar the path of their ambitions to be masters of the world?

For us there is more to do than merely win the war. We shall win it, but we must also win a victory far greater than that of arms. In this world of masters and slaves, which those madmen who rule at Berlin are seeking to forge, we must also save liberty and human dignity.

Edouard Daladier - January 29, 1940

[teamgene]

ORIGINAL: teamgene

ORIGINAL: Shawkhan

Hitler missed the boat by not starting war in 1938. It was then that the ratio of forces most favored Axis success. The Germans had 5 panzer and 6 motorized divisions at this time compared to only 3 Allied Lt tank divisions and 3 motorized divisions. More importantly perhaps, is that the British Spitfire and the French DeWoitine fighters were missing in action. The air war and possible Sealion invasion of England would have been much more feasible then.
Contrary to 'popular' opinion, Chamberlain knew that Hitler was lying and 'Peace for our time' was simply not possible. Chamberlain was well aware of the total unpreparedness of Britain and knew he was not ready for war. The extra year of preparation he was able to get from the Munich agreement helped the Aliies to even the odds, not enough to save France of course, but enough to stave off total German victory.
If Hitler had waited until 1940 the odds would have perhaps been even, and war even later would have resulted in stalemate or worse for the Third Reich. If he had waited until 1942 he probably would have faced a Russian invasion as Zhukov already had the plan of attack on Germany filed and ready for use by 1941.

The panzer divisions in 1938 were made up of Panzer I and II's and would not have had the impact that they got by being able to augment them with Pz38's and heavy support Pz IV's they had later. The Pz III were too few to matter in either case. Also, there would have been a lack of 88's that were used so well by Guderian in France as a support weapon.

Likewise if it started later, Russia may or may not have been stronger. I am not convinced that the T34 would have fully replaced the BT series as it was too heavy for the average bridge in Russia at the time. Russia had broken up its armored units after lessons learned in Finland, so possible it would have just meant a lot of captured T34's at the start? However, there would have been more PzIII's and if later, may have had the long barrel 50mm which could handle the early T34 at close range. Germany would have lost its edge in the air though.

However, Italy could possibly had been more of a factor in the war with a later start.

Great speech of 1940, almost totally forgotten:

At the end of five months of war one thing has become more and more clear. It is that Germany seeks to establish a domination over the world completely different from any known in history.

The domination at which the Nazis aim is not limited to the displacement of the balance of power and the imposition of supremacy of one nation. It seeks the systematic and total destruction of those conquered by Hitler, and it does not treaty with the nations which he has subdued. He destroys them. He takes from them their whole political and economic existence and seeks even to deprive them of their history and their culture. He wishes to consider them only as vital space and a vacant territory over which he has every right.

The human beings who constitute these nations are for him only cattle. He orders their massacre or their migration. He compels them to make room for their conquerors. He does not even take the trouble to impose any war tribute on them. He just takes all their wealth, and, to prevent any revolt, he wipes out their leaders and scientifically seeks the physical and moral degradation of those whose independence he has taken away.

Under this domination, in thousands of towns and villages in Europe there are millions of human beings now living in misery which, some months ago, they could never have imagined. Austria, Bohemia, Slovakia and Poland are only lands of despair. Their whole peoples have been deprived of the means of moral and material happiness. Subdued by treachery or brutal violence, they have no other recourse than to work for their executioners who grant them scarcely enough to assure the most miserable existence.

There is being created a world of masters and slaves in the image of Germany herself. For, while Germany is crushing beneath her tyranny the men of every race and language, she is herself being crushed beneath her own servitude and her domination mania. The German worker and peasant are the slaves of their Nazi masters while the worker and peasant of Bohemia and Poland have become in turn slaves of these slaves. Before this first realization of a mad dream, the whole world might shudder.

Nazi propaganda is entirely founded on the exploitation of the weakness of the human heart. It does not address itself to the strong or the heroic. It tells the rich they are going to lose their money. It tells the worker this is a rich man's war. It tells the intellectual and the artist that all he cherished is being destroyed by war. It tells the lover of good things that soon he would have none of them. It says to the Christian believer: "How can you accept this massacre?" It tells the adventurer - "a man like you should profit by the misfortunes of your country."

It is those who speak this way who have destroyed or confiscated all the wealth they could lay their hands on, who have reduced their workers to slavery, who have ruined all intellectual liberty, who have imposed terrible privations on millions of men and women and who have made murder their law. What do contradictions matter to them if they can lower the resistance of those who wish to bar the path of their ambitions to be masters of the world?

For us there is more to do than merely win the war. We shall win it, but we must also win a victory far greater than that of arms. In this world of masters and slaves, which those madmen who rule at Berlin are seeking to forge, we must also save liberty and human dignity.

Edouard Daladier - January 29, 1940

[SLAAKMAN]

For us there is more to do than merely win the war. We shall win it, but we must also win a victory far greater than that of arms. In this world of masters and slaves, which those madmen who rule at Berlin are seeking to forge, we must also save liberty and human dignity.

Edouard Daladier - January 29, 1940

Pretty speech. Unfortunately the same shouldve been said of the Soviet Union and the Commintern 10 years earlier. The Nazi's were almost an exact duplicate of Stalinism and did as many previous militarists, borrowed from earlier conquerers spanning thousands of years including methods of the British Empire and the American subjugation of this continent. Had the Entente made a real effort to destroy the bolsheviks in the 1920's there might not have been a Second World War.