Want to have some fun?

[crsutton]

Here is my recipe for sinking a lot of your own ships.

Send a large TF of cargo ships and escorts home from Oz to San Francisco.
Make sure to set them on "full speed" and then "forget" you did it.
Set some nice waypoints so you don't have to worry about them.
Then just sit back and relax.
Some weeks later, you will observe some odd ship sinkings in the OP report.
After a few ships go down in the next few turns you frantically start searching for a TF in trouble.
That is when you find your large TF about 30 hexes out of Frisco with no fuel and most of the ships with super high sys damage-steaming along at full speed [:@] .
Next you quickly form up a replenshiment TF and dispatch it at full speed from LA.
Then watch a few more ships go under as your AOs race to the scene of the disaster.
Ice the cake by accidently refueling the wrong convoy en route and using up more than half of your AO's fuel supply.
Meet the endangered TF and give them the rest only to discover it is not enough to allow them to reach home.
Fret over the pending disaster for a few more turns until you realize that the TF is still going under "full speed".
Turn it back on to "mission speed" and take a small breath when you realize that your 70-90 sys damaged ships are going to make it home after all. (What is left of them)
Go to the bathroom. Get a drink of water. Pet the dog. Then find some way to kick yourself in the butt for being such a dumbass......Knowing full well that you probably will do it again in the future. [:-]

Seriously, I like the idea of no fuel ships accumulating sys damage but perhaps it might be scaled back a bit, for large ships anyways.
Also, it seems obvious to me that ships with no fuel should automatically defaut to cruise speed as I think I was accumulating extra damage as my ships were set on full speed.
Full speed penalties should be higher for fast warships as merchants, and ocean liners were really designed to operate at "full speed" (or very near full speed). They should accumulate damage but at a slower rate.

Some thoughts.

[Yamato hugger]

Sounds good. I'll try that.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Seriously, I like the idea of no fuel ships accumulating sys damage but perhaps it might be scaled back a bit, for large ships anyways.

Then you have never been aboard a ship without power at sea. Without power you loose steerage. Then you're in sheep dip.

Also, it seems obvious to me that ships with no fuel should automatically defaut to cruise speed as I think I was accumulating extra damage as my ships were set on full speed.

Basic rule is you-set-it, you-get-it.

Full speed penalties should be higher for fast warships as merchants, and ocean liners were really designed to operate at "full speed" (or very near full speed). They should accumulate damage but at a slower rate.

Some thoughts.

Not a bad idea. Don't think it will make the enhancement list though. Changing from a single rate to multiple by ship type or (shudder) class is quite a lot of work.

[witpqs]

What was the cause of the sinkings? I thought that SYS damage maxed out at 99 and ships could not sink from it. Were there sharks of steel being drawn to the blood, er, smoke and noise filled convoy?

[denisonh]

Open ocean in a major storm without steerage.........

Bad juju. Can you say "floundering"?

ORIGINAL: witpqs

What was the cause of the sinkings? I thought that SYS damage maxed out at 99 and ships could not sink from it. Were there sharks of steel being drawn to the blood, er, smoke and noise filled convoy?

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Seriously, I like the idea of no fuel ships accumulating sys damage but perhaps it might be scaled back a bit, for large ships anyways.

Then you have never been aboard a ship without power at sea. Without power you loose steerage. Then you're in sheep dip.

Also, it seems obvious to me that ships with no fuel should automatically defaut to cruise speed as I think I was accumulating extra damage as my ships were set on full speed.

Basic rule is you-set-it, you-get-it.

Full speed penalties should be higher for fast warships as merchants, and ocean liners were really designed to operate at "full speed" (or very near full speed). They should accumulate damage but at a slower rate.

Some thoughts.

Not a bad idea. Don't think it will make the enhancement list though. Changing from a single rate to multiple by ship type or (shudder) class is quite a lot of work.

Actually, I am a former merchant marine officer with over 2,000 days at sea. (shameless brag [;)]) I spent many a day floating around on ships without power. They actually break down quite a bit-especially the older ones. Surprisingly most of the time you are at sea it is calm or moderate and floating around for a few days waiting for a tow has no effect on the ship. You get a little fishing in. I spent a number of years on the North Atlantic run and losing power there could present some problems.

Now of course, floating around in sub infested waters might be another thing but the sys damage thing is way too harsh as it is.

If you want to hear some real "sea stories" just let me know.....

[Erik Rutins]

Thank you for the good laugh. [8D]

I agree that ships out of fuel should at least reset to "Cruise" speed, though I'm guessing the "out of fuel" damage there was far greater than the "full speed" wear and tear.

[RevRick]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Seriously, I like the idea of no fuel ships accumulating sys damage but perhaps it might be scaled back a bit, for large ships anyways.

Then you have never been aboard a ship without power at sea. Without power you loose steerage. Then you're in sheep dip.

Also, it seems obvious to me that ships with no fuel should automatically defaut to cruise speed as I think I was accumulating extra damage as my ships were set on full speed.

Basic rule is you-set-it, you-get-it.

Full speed penalties should be higher for fast warships as merchants, and ocean liners were really designed to operate at "full speed" (or very near full speed). They should accumulate damage but at a slower rate.

Some thoughts.

Not a bad idea. Don't think it will make the enhancement list though. Changing from a single rate to multiple by ship type or (shudder) class is quite a lot of work.

Actually, I am a former merchant marine officer with over 2,000 days at sea. (shameless brag [;)]) I spent many a day floating around on ships without power. They actually break down quite a bit-especially the older ones. Surprisingly most of the time you are at sea it is calm or moderate and floating around for a few days waiting for a tow has no effect on the ship. You get a little fishing in. I spent a number of years on the North Atlantic run and losing power there could present some problems.

Now of course, floating around in sub infested waters might be another thing but the sys damage thing is way too harsh as it is.

If you want to hear some real "sea stories" just let me know.....

Concur...Now that we have engineering damage, system damage should have a minimal impact on speed, but on the ability to complete the mission. Weapons systems should just go red for no apparent reason, radars should just quit, a ship steaming alone should just lose communications, get lost, etc.

Check me on this, CR. My onboard memory banks are full of all kind of stuff and this is really old - like +36 years now. It's not full speed that drives you nuts. There is one above, which is Flank speed which chews up the go juice and shakes the innards of both you and the ship out. And that varies in this game from about 28kts to 37kts for the USN combatant vessels (excluding the Old Ladies) depending on repair state.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: RevRick
Concur...Now that we have engineering damage, system damage should have a minimal impact on speed, but on the ability to complete the mission. Weapons systems should just go red for no apparent reason, radars should just quit, a ship steaming alone should just lose communications, get lost, etc.

Note that Engine damage is now the primary effect on speed in AE, flotation damage is the second most important, with system damage last, unlike WITP.

Regards,

- Erik

[crsutton]

Yep, I doubt that I could have done it all more wrong that I did.
 
Be warned guys that high sys damgage can do a ship in unlike in WITP. None of my TF ships had any flotation damage. But they were running on full speed and it has already been noted in the forum that damaged ships running on full speed have a much greater chance of a critical system failure and going under.
 
Not to mention that I realized after the fact that I had plenty of other major cargo TFs in the area that could have easily met the distressed TF and shared fuel. Yes, you might call it a "perfect storm" of boo boos.....[:-]  I have shown my hand. Now might be a good time to challenge me to an email game.
 
 

[carnifex]

hen you have never been aboard a ship without power at sea. Without power you loose steerage. Then you're in sheep dip.

Right. Except no skipper in the world would just run out of fuel, regardless of his orders. I can see it already - "Well, if we run out of fuel we die, and we are at 10% fuel remaining, but my orders are to maintain flank speed so..."

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: RevRick

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen




Then you have never been aboard a ship without power at sea. Without power you loose steerage. Then you're in sheep dip.




Basic rule is you-set-it, you-get-it.





Not a bad idea. Don't think it will make the enhancement list though. Changing from a single rate to multiple by ship type or (shudder) class is quite a lot of work.

Actually, I am a former merchant marine officer with over 2,000 days at sea. (shameless brag [;)]) I spent many a day floating around on ships without power. They actually break down quite a bit-especially the older ones. Surprisingly most of the time you are at sea it is calm or moderate and floating around for a few days waiting for a tow has no effect on the ship. You get a little fishing in. I spent a number of years on the North Atlantic run and losing power there could present some problems.

Now of course, floating around in sub infested waters might be another thing but the sys damage thing is way too harsh as it is.

If you want to hear some real "sea stories" just let me know.....

Concur...Now that we have engineering damage, system damage should have a minimal impact on speed, but on the ability to complete the mission. Weapons systems should just go red for no apparent reason, radars should just quit, a ship steaming alone should just lose communications, get lost, etc.

Check me on this, CR. My onboard memory banks are full of all kind of stuff and this is really old - like +36 years now. It's not full speed that drives you nuts. There is one above, which is Flank speed which chews up the go juice and shakes the innards of both you and the ship out. And that varies in this game from about 28kts to 37kts for the USN combatant vessels (excluding the Old Ladies) depending on repair state.

Ok, now you have opened up the floor for "sea stories" May god have mercy on your poor souls. Here is a good extra knot story.

I worked as able body seaman on the fastest merchant ships ever made. They were called SL7s (Sealand) and I think they built six or seven of them. They were constructed in the early seventies before the gas crisis and were designed to cruise at just under 30 knots, and to cruise at full speed in all but the worst North Atlantic storms! They could make 20 knots on one boiler. On the maiden voyage of the first ship (I was not there) they tried to break the transatlantic record held by the United States or one of the Queens, but blew a boiler just out of Brixton light and failed. However the oil crisis of the early seventies did them in. A normal modern merchant burned about 30 barrels of oil an hour but these babys burned 300. For the rest of their careers they sailed at about 22 knots to conserve fuel. Eventually they were sold to the Navy, completely rebuilt and now serve in the rapid deployment fleet. The navy likes them because they can keep up with warships.

You are right Rev. Merchants are designed to run at full speed. That is cruising speed is basically the same as their top speed. But you could always squeeze an extra knot out of them, however it really stressed the systems and that is when things would break. A full speed run for a warship in good condition should not stress it too much. A flank run for any lenght of time risks quite a lot of damage.

[Kwik E Mart]

...one time I tried to break my own TransFlorida speed record in my '76 Celica...had her up to sustained 90 mph somewhere between Gainsville and Orlando when the rod got thrown...unfortunately, I wasn't able to fish while I waited for my tow (which was my old man, and he was just a little grumpy...) Road trips to UF ceased at that point...[8D]

[MadmanRick]

And to add insult to injury, in my game the Allied AI has two ML's running from the DEI to Ceylon that has been out of fuel for days now and they haven't taken even one point of SYS damage!


Rick

[jazman]

I've started doing checks on the "list all ships" button and sorting on damage. Never know what you'll find there, never good suprises, though.

Sorting on "endurance" is a good idea, too. But make sure you look at the low end.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: MadmanRick

And to add insult to injury, in my game the Allied AI has two ML's running from the DEI to Ceylon that has been out of fuel for days now and they haven't taken even one point of SYS damage!


Rick

Wow! The damage must be random.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: RevRick
Concur...Now that we have engineering damage, system damage should have a minimal impact on speed, but on the ability to complete the mission. Weapons systems should just go red for no apparent reason, radars should just quit, a ship steaming alone should just lose communications, get lost, etc.

Note that Engine damage is now the primary effect on speed in AE, flotation damage is the second most important, with system damage last, unlike WITP.

Regards,

- Erik

Looking over the remaining ships as they near LA, engine damage is very light with only one ship having 3 damage and half a dozen having one or two, and they were basically on full speed from OZ until they were about 30 hexes out of the West Coast. It does look as though merchants on full speed do not suffer as much as fast warships. I frequently run merchant convoys on full speed in dangerous waters with little bad effects. Mostly my ships have major sys damage which I suspect ran up after they ran out of fuel but were still operating at full speed. I also suspect that I would have not lost any of the ships if I had noticed and turned off the full speed. That is the thing that did me in, running full tilt with damaged ships, rather than the fuel issue.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: RevRick
Concur...Now that we have engineering damage, system damage should have a minimal impact on speed, but on the ability to complete the mission. Weapons systems should just go red for no apparent reason, radars should just quit, a ship steaming alone should just lose communications, get lost, etc.

Note that Engine damage is now the primary effect on speed in AE, flotation damage is the second most important, with system damage last, unlike WITP.

Regards,

- Erik

Looking over the remaining ships as they near LA, engine damage is very light with only one ship having 3 damage and half a dozen having one or two, and they were basically on full speed from OZ until they were about 30 hexes out of the West Coast. It does look as though merchants on full speed do not suffer as much as fast warships. I frequently run merchant convoys on full speed in dangerous waters with little bad effects. Mostly my ships have major sys damage which I suspect ran up after they ran out of fuel but were still operating at full speed. I also suspect that I would have not lost any of the ships if I had noticed and turned off the full speed. That is the thing that did me in, running full tilt with damaged ships, rather than the fuel issue.

I don't think so. Both full speed and out-of-fuel are separate chances for damage. Out of fuel might be a little less in daily dings, but it has a much bigger potential for massive damage. Especially in hexes containing reefs.

[TheTomDude]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Here is my recipe for sinking a lot of your own ships.

Send a large TF of cargo ships and escorts home from Oz to San Francisco.
Make sure to set them on "full speed" and then "forget" you did it.
Set some nice waypoints so you don't have to worry about them.
Then just sit back and relax.
Some weeks later, you will observe some odd ship sinkings in the OP report.
After a few ships go down in the next few turns you frantically start searching for a TF in trouble.
That is when you find your large TF about 30 hexes out of Frisco with no fuel and most of the ships with super high sys damage-steaming along at full speed [:@] .
Next you quickly form up a replenshiment TF and dispatch it at full speed from LA.
Then watch a few more ships go under as your AOs race to the scene of the disaster.
Ice the cake by accidently refueling the wrong convoy en route and using up more than half of your AO's fuel supply.
Meet the endangered TF and give them the rest only to discover it is not enough to allow them to reach home.
Fret over the pending disaster for a few more turns until you realize that the TF is still going under "full speed".
Turn it back on to "mission speed" and take a small breath when you realize that your 70-90 sys damaged ships are going to make it home after all. (What is left of them)
Go to the bathroom. Get a drink of water. Pet the dog. Then find some way to kick yourself in the butt for being such a dumbass......Knowing full well that you probably will do it again in the future. [:-]

Seriously, I like the idea of no fuel ships accumulating sys damage but perhaps it might be scaled back a bit, for large ships anyways.
Also, it seems obvious to me that ships with no fuel should automatically defaut to cruise speed as I think I was accumulating extra damage as my ships were set on full speed.
Full speed penalties should be higher for fast warships as merchants, and ocean liners were really designed to operate at "full speed" (or very near full speed). They should accumulate damage but at a slower rate.

Some thoughts.

Hehe I had a similar encounter with a medium TF inbound Manila. Forgot to set it back to mission speed after leaving dangerous waters. [8|]
But you could have done worse crsutton. Think about having important troops loaded onto those merchants. A kick in your own butt wouldn't have been enough then I think. [:D]

[MadmanRick]

Wow! The damage must be random.

I'm not sure how "random" it is, I also found this example in the same game. I am going to pay even closer attention, as perhaps the AI doesn't incur damage penalties for running out of fuel. If that is the case, that's a pretty big disadvantage for the Human side.