ASW Tactics

[tbridges]

How many escorts does it take to get the subs to leave a convoy alone? Will a single destroyer do it? One escort per every 10 transports?

Do larger convoys really require more escorts? It seems logical but does anyone have actual experience on this issue? I'd hate to be committing more of my scarce destroyers on bigger convoys if one or two would do the trick.

[Nikademus]

No amount of escorts make a sub "leave a convoy alone". However a minimum of one escort will prevent a sub from attempting a surfaced attack on a convoy with it's deck gun as well as torpedoes.

[tbridges]

I'm just trying to maximize the safety of my convoys with the minimum committment of escorts. I assume there's some kind of code in place that makes it more likely that a sub will attack a convoy with a single escort and ten transports instead of the one with ten escorts and a single transport. What is the tipping point? I guess only experience will tell.

[herwin]

For a standard convoy (about 40 MS), the escort in the Atlantic was 4-6 ships. The larger the convoy, the better the outcome for the RN, since the Germans lost out coming and going. I usually use 5 escorts.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: tbridges

I'm just trying to maximize the safety of my convoys with the minimum committment of escorts. I assume there's some kind of code in place that makes it more likely that a sub will attack a convoy with a single escort and ten transports instead of the one with ten escorts and a single transport. What is the tipping point? I guess only experience will tell.

More escorts increases the chance the escort will prevent the sub from successfully attacking. Sub Commander aggression, complete presence/absence of escort, and some luck (i.e. random) determine if it will try to attack.

[tbridges]

Thanks Don, that's exactly what I needed to know. I'm not nearly as short of escorts as I thought.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: tbridges

I'm just trying to maximize the safety of my convoys with the minimum committment of escorts. I assume there's some kind of code in place that makes it more likely that a sub will attack a convoy with a single escort and ten transports instead of the one with ten escorts and a single transport. What is the tipping point? I guess only experience will tell.

More escorts increases the chance the escort will prevent the sub from successfully attacking. Sub Commander aggression, complete presence/absence of escort, and some luck (i.e. random) determine if it will try to attack.

HISTORY

And at the same time, increased the probability of sinking the sub. Hence the effectiveness of the escort (defined as the subs sunk per merchant ship sunk) went as the square of the escort strength.

[RCNVR]

I believe the formula that the RN eventually came up with was 5 escorts plus one for every ten merchant ships. (30 merchants = 8 escorts) This of course was ideal and early in the war did not happen that often. Larger convoys were more efficient.

[jazman]

So there's a little something extra in building up a big convoy. If you have 40 merchants, you can't just load 'em all up in one port, right? You'd have to load 'em up in Seattle, Portland, Alameda, LA, San Diego, and converge outside of SF (escorted to that point, of course), meet up with the full convoy escort group, and off it goes.

[crsutton]

I will tell you this. It is May 1942 in my practice game against the AI. I am finding that even one lowly escort with a convoy is making a big difference vs unescorted ships. Very few sucessful attacks.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: jazman

So there's a little something extra in building up a big convoy. If you have 40 merchants, you can't just load 'em all up in one port, right? You'd have to load 'em up in Seattle, Portland, Alameda, LA, San Diego, and converge outside of SF (escorted to that point, of course), meet up with the full convoy escort group, and off it goes.

Not only that. When you get to your destination, you will find that you can only unload a small portion. Even a level 7 port such as Brisbane requires a lot of forethought and managment. Every thing is better but harder in AE......

[rockmedic109]

The new loading/unloading rules favor smaller convoys more often than one massive convoy.  And if you have a lot of escorts, don't they tie up pier space when the convoy tries to dock at the destination?  AAAHHHHHCCCKKK.  My head hurts thinking about this game.  It's like when the police officer asked me why I was hitting my head against a brick wall....."It feels so good when I stop."

[tbridges]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I will tell you this. It is May 1942 in my practice game against the AI. I am finding that even one lowly escort with a convoy is making a big difference vs unescorted ships. Very few sucessful attacks.

Me too. My convoys (almost regardless of size) only have one or two escorts and are getting very, very few sub attacks. Those that do get attacked suffer very little, if any, damage. There does not seem to be any advantage to increasing the number of escorts.

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

The new loading/unloading rules favor smaller convoys more often than one massive convoy.  And if you have a lot of escorts, don't they tie up pier space when the convoy tries to dock at the destination?  AAAHHHHHCCCKKK.  My head hurts thinking about this game.  It's like when the police officer asked me why I was hitting my head against a brick wall....."It feels so good when I stop."

Good question about escorts. Don't know why they should take up dock space as they aren't unloading, but it would be interesting to find out.

Definitely going to be true to size your TFs correctly for the tonnage and capacity of the destination port. For sure.

[pmelheck1]

One thing I think an escort will change is I have had subs make multiple attacks on unescorted convoys.  I have had one of my subs attack a 3 ship convoy and destroy all 3 ships in one turn and I've had the Japanese do it to me as well.   Don't know if others have had this experience.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: jazman

So there's a little something extra in building up a big convoy. If you have 40 merchants, you can't just load 'em all up in one port, right? You'd have to load 'em up in Seattle, Portland, Alameda, LA, San Diego, and converge outside of SF (escorted to that point, of course), meet up with the full convoy escort group, and off it goes.

HISTORY

That's exactly what they did.

[Chad Harrison]

With AE we are all having to learn how things work(ed) in the real world [:D]

I for one love the logistics part of this game. I know some loathe it, but its the reason this game strikes such a chord with me: you have to deal with what the *real* commanders had to deal with. In the pacific, that meant fighting the terrain and logistical issues as often, if not more, than the enemy.

What a great game!

[jazman]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

With AE we are all having to learn how things work(ed) in the real world [:D]

I for one love the logistics part of this game. I know some loathe it, but its the reason this game strikes such a chord with me: you have to deal with what the *real* commanders had to deal with. In the pacific, that meant fighting the terrain and logistical issues as often, if not more, than the enemy.

What a great game!

I think the logistics fascination is a maturity. Just like when I was young I wanted to read about the battles, and I grew into interest in the pre-war maneuvering and diplomacy, etc.; when I was young I just wanted the glory of carrier battles, but now I'm fascinated by all these unexplored yet very important facets of the war. Not to take anything away from the guys fighting and dying...

Of course, we welcome young folk here--if they appreciate what is going on in the game, they are a leg up on me.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: jazman

Just like when I was young I wanted to read about the battles, and I grew into interest in the pre-war maneuvering and diplomacy, etc.; when I was young I just wanted the glory of carrier battles, but now I'm fascinated by all these unexplored yet very important facets of the war.

A game where you have to set yourself up for, supply yourself for and position yourself for that big carrier battle is 10 times more rewarding than anygame where you just play the battle in itself. Therein lies the beauty of WitP, let alone AE. You have to live with the results, especially in a PBEM where there is no convenient 'oh lets play that turn one more time' like there is with the AI.

I know this is all off topic, but from worry about the ratio of ASW vesels, to getting enough fuel to Australia, or trying to get any supply into China: this game is without peer.

Sorry, I am kind of a fanboi [:D]