so , why do these aircraft even show up?

[JohnDillworth]

It's May 27th 1942. I have a bunch of B-17 show up at Mojave that are restricted, and need to be withdrawn in 2 weeks. I am just withdrawing them now. They have little experience and I would not be able to do much except have them sub hunt for a week. What is the point of placing htese aircraft if I can't really use them?

301st BG/352nd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/353rd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/419th BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/358th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/359th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/360th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/427th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
301st BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/Hq sqn arrives at Mojave

[wild_Willie2]

Use them for training up pilots that go back into the pool when you withdraw them....

[Graymane]

If you disband or withdraw the unit, do the planes go back to the pool?

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Graymane

If you disband or withdraw the unit, do the planes go back to the pool?

If these are like the 1 plane squadrons on the west coast, I don't think these units are allowed to be withdrawn. Disband only and you lose both the planes and pilots, so don't add pilots to them. Kind of a waste putting them in game if you ask me, just adds to the micro management.

Jim

[crsutton]

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war. I have always thought the replacement rates were too low in WITP but as a result of playing AE now have a greater understanding of why there were so few aircraft availble in the early months of the Pacific campaign. It is not just how many planes were being built but the tremendous demand from other theaters and training facilities for quality aircraft.

Ok, perhaps the second time I play it might be a little bothersome to fiddle around with units stuck in the US but I don't regret having to do it the first time. I knew a hell of a lot about the Pacific War but never realized how much I did not know until I started playing WITP and AE. I want a good war game, but after over 45 years of gaming, I find that my favorite games also teach me something along the way. AE may be the best ever in that respect. Everybody looks at it differently. The greatest war game ever, Chess, does not provide a lot of filler and history for the player-just a great game. On the other hand AE provides a hell of a lot of content along with a great game. Perhaps a bit more than the average gamer wants or needs, but I am Ok with it.

[Graymane]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Graymane

If you disband or withdraw the unit, do the planes go back to the pool?

If these are like the 1 plane squadrons on the west coast, I don't think these units are allowed to be withdrawn. Disband only and you lose both the planes and pilots, so don't add pilots to them. Kind of a waste putting them in game if you ask me, just adds to the micro management.

Jim

That is what i was afraid of.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Graymane

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Graymane

If you disband or withdraw the unit, do the planes go back to the pool?

If these are like the 1 plane squadrons on the west coast, I don't think these units are allowed to be withdrawn. Disband only and you lose both the planes and pilots, so don't add pilots to them. Kind of a waste putting them in game if you ask me, just adds to the micro management.

Jim

That is what i was afraid of.

All of this changes if the West Coast is invaded....

[khyberbill]

Use them for training up pilots that go back into the pool when you withdraw them....

I havent gotten that far yet but most of the planes and pilots i have to disband, not withdraw and it states that you lose the planes and pilots, they dont return to the pool. I think these are there to distract us from strategic planning. In my second PBEM I withdraw/disband immediately and at least get some PPs.

[khyberbill]

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war.

I really didnt want to learn this and could have read a book. I am more interested in playing the game and this, while historically accurate, certainly adds zip point squat to playability.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war.

I really didnt want to learn this and could have read a book. I am more interested in playing the game and this, while historically accurate, certainly adds zip point squat to playability.

I absolutely disagree.

[gunnergoz]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war.

I really didnt want to learn this and could have read a book. I am more interested in playing the game and this, while historically accurate, certainly adds zip point squat to playability.

To each his own. I like the mix of game talk and history talk that goes on here. I wouldn't want to see it discouraged in any way. If the game were about a fantasy event, I for one would have zip interest in it. But then again, I learned English in part watching Victory at Sea as a kid, when it first came out in the '50's. So that's just my two bits.

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

It's May 27th 1942. I have a bunch of B-17 show up at Mojave that are restricted, and need to be withdrawn in 2 weeks. I am just withdrawing them now. They have little experience and I would not be able to do much except have them sub hunt for a week. What is the point of placing htese aircraft if I can't really use them?

301st BG/352nd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/353rd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/419th BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/358th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/359th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/360th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/427th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
301st BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/Hq sqn arrives at Mojave

US Intelligence had gotten wind of the Japanese planning something big in the central Pacific end of May - early June '42, so some additional air units and a/c were made available. 301st & 303rd BG's each provided a composite sqn drawn from across each group, deploying to HI, while the main bodies stood in readyness to defend the WC just in case.

Both groups withdraw, ie you get to keep those B-17's.

[JohnDillworth]

US Intelligence had gotten wind of the Japanese planning something big in the central Pacific end of May - early June '42,

Yeah, but historically nothing happened at that time....Oh, wait a second, sorry[8|]

[gunnergoz]

Isn't it great when the phrase "US intelligence" is not an oxymoron? [:D]

[gunnergoz]

Double post: Err, sorry 'bout 'dat...[:'(]

[Sardaukar]

As Don said:

All of this changes if the West Coast is invaded....

This tells it all why those units arrived historically and why they are in game. US feared invasion on mainland USA, with nice 20/20 hindsight, that was ridiculous fear. But, especially in game like AE, some players are going to make wildly unexpected moves, even landing on West Coast. If that happens in your game and those units had been removed, many of those deriding historical placement of units would be first in line to scream that West Coast is not properly garrisoned.

As far as I know, AE tries to be as faithful to history as possible with unit arrivals. There is always those Disband & Withdraw buttons.. Deal with it. [8D]

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war.

I really didnt want to learn this and could have read a book. I am more interested in playing the game and this, while historically accurate, certainly adds zip point squat to playability.

You remind me of what my mother use to say to my father (way back in the day) "Why don't you bitch Beach" As you can see my last name is Beach.[:D][:D][:D]

[jimh009]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

As Don said:

All of this changes if the West Coast is invaded....

This tells it all why those units arrived historically and why they are in game. US feared invasion on mainland USA, with nice 20/20 hindsight, that was ridiculous fear. But, especially in game like AE, some players are going to make wildly unexpected moves, even landing on West Coast. If that happens in your game and those units had been removed, many of those deriding historical placement of units would be first in line to scream that West Coast is not properly garrisoned.

As far as I know, AE tries to be as faithful to history as possible with unit arrivals. There is always those Disband & Withdraw buttons.. Deal with it. [8D]

I initially was annoyed by all those little 1 and 2 plane airgroups that had to be withdrawn...thought it was overkill. However, the more I thought about it, the more I have to agree about having them around. The US West Coast IS part of the Pacific War. As Sardaukar points out, in real-life, the US feared invasion...so not having these air units around doesn't make sense.

My only "beef" I have is the withdraw dates of air groups and land units. I don't think the withdraw dates of units should be so "hard coded" as they are now in the game. During the real war, units I suspect were withdrawn due to events on the ground...events which won't happen in the game, at least not in exactly the same way. Thus, it would have been nice if the players (both Japanese and Allies) had some flexibility in aircraft//land unit/ship withdraw. The current system in AE is just too harsh and provides very little flexibility.

A bit more flexibility in handling withdraw (of ships/land/air units) would have been nice in AE.

Beyond that...no complaints.

[khyberbill]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

quote:

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war.

I really didnt want to learn this and could have read a book. I am more interested in playing the game and this, while historically accurate, certainly adds zip point squat to playability.



I absolutely disagree.

I see, and how does this add to playability?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

quote:

Sort of, but also a good learning tool as you can now understand the tremendous demand for pilots and planes placed by the expansion of the armed forces in the early years of the war.

I really didnt want to learn this and could have read a book. I am more interested in playing the game and this, while historically accurate, certainly adds zip point squat to playability.



I absolutely disagree.

I see, and how does this add to playability?

Well Sir, I do want to learn things and I do want to read books. And I want to see the things that I read about in the game. I have no idea what your idea of playability is, but I suspect it is no where near mine.

Don't see any reason to continue this discussion any further.