Diplomats Range

[06 Maestro]

Is the distance of a diplomat from its target of expulsion a factor? I am wondering if just being in the same county will suffice, or does he need to be in the same province? Perhaps closer is better than further?

[Mus]

I would be interested to know the answer as well. I have not noticed a difference, but all the diplomatic stuff is so random it is hard to say without actually knowing the anwer because you wrote the game.

[:)]

[06 Maestro]

Well, there's always experimentation.
Off I go to the laboratory.

[Ironclad]

deleted

[Mus]

As Austria in "no frills 1792" I have had Cobenzl in Upper Austria on Capture/Expell for most of the game as a defensive measure. Turn 22 I expelled a diplomat in Salzburg, Turn 23 I expelled a diplomat in Styria. Both of these provinces are right next door. Next Turn, Turn 24, I will see if I attemp to expell a Turkish diplomat in Venetia that just became mine Turn 23. Venetia is 3 provinces away from Upper Austria.

I know it is not same province only. Only thing I don't know is if it applies to ALL of your territory or a certain radius.

[Ironclad]

ORIGINAL: Mus

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

The diplomat has to be in the same province as his target for expulsion.

That is definetely false.

You are too quick I deleted the post

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

You are too quick I deleted the post

Ah, no biggie. Need something to do now that our WD game has ground to a halt with technical difficulties.

[:(]

[Ironclad]

I was just checking out some posts on this subject - nothing definitive but the suggestion seemed to be that it was country wide and applied to protectorates as well. If that is the case that does seem a bit generous unless there is some reduction for distance effect.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

I was just checking out some posts on this subject - nothing definitive but the suggestion seemed to be that it was country wide and applied to protectorates as well. If that is the case that does seem a bit generous unless there is some reduction for distance effect.

I don't know that I find anything wrong it it. It is already hard enough to defend against certain diplomatic missions IMO.

Capture/Expel is really just your diplomats sending messages to the local magistrate or something to that effect to arrest so and so on suspicion of X and the turns are a month long. Seems feasible.

The only reduction in effect I know of is operating on foreign soil your legal rating is halved.

This would involve working at getting foreign officials to arrest people, so makes sense that it's harder.

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

From my experiance Capture/expel works anywhere, ie, in your home provinces, and in protecterate or conquered provinces abroad, eg Spains Goday based in Catalonia has in succesive turns expelled french Diplos from Ancona Italy (one more to go for the 'Hat trick') Same thing with English Diplos in a different game.

Basicaly if your Diplo is in his own teritory he will expel in any province that has your nations colour, if you are trying it in a forign land your chance to succed ratio is reduced by 50% and there ot may well be only province wide effect, dunno for sure though.

All the Best
Peter

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker

HiHi

From my experiance Capture/expel works anywhere, ie, in your home provinces, and in protecterate or conquered provinces abroad, eg Spains Goday based in Catalonia has in succesive turns expelled french Diplos from Ancona Italy (one more to go for the 'Hat trick') Same thing with English Diplos in a different game.

Basicaly if your Diplo is in his own teritory he will expel in any province that has your nations colour, if you are trying it in a forign land your chance to succed ratio is reduced by 50% and there ot may well be only province wide effect, dunno for sure though.

All the Best
Peter

Well if this is the case, and I tend to believe you Kingmaker, then the whole "suitcase nuke" insurrection "problem" is really not such a problem after all is it?

I was under the impression you had to have a diplomat in the SAME province as Ironclad thought up above, and under those circumstances the lack of any sort of 'build up' toward the revolt of an entire multi-proviince posession seemed overpowered.

Now I wonder. It still might be good to weaken insurrection a bit, but if having a diplomat ANYWHERE in your territory is a viable defense against it, then . . . it seems to me it doesn't need to be so nearly nerfed as we were thinking. Dont' want to have suitcase-nuke insurrections disrupting your kingdom? Just set one of your high legal diplomats to Expel in a home province and leave him PERMANENTLY. Better yet, build an additional one and set two of them to expel!

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Well if this is the case, and I tend to believe you Kingmaker, then the whole "suitcase nuke" insurrection "problem" is really not such a problem after all is it?

I was under the impression you had to have a diplomat in the SAME province as Ironclad thought up above, and under those circumstances the lack of any sort of 'build up' toward the revolt of an entire multi-proviince posession seemed overpowered.

Same here.

This is why I started moderating my tone about insurrections, because I found out capture/expell was countrywide.

Remember the discussions about it recently in PBEM 109 and Another PBEM thread?

I still think insurrections are too easy to pull off, and would like to see it be harder (the 40,000 ungarrisoned troops making it impossible all by itself might fix it all by itself IMO, yet still keep it good as a tactic to try to tie down enemy troops), but don't think it is as overpowered as I initially did.

In "Another PBEM" when Prussia lent me all his lands I started expelling with a decent rate of success across all of Europe with my 70 legal diplomat, and then I started agreeing with Kingmaker.

[06 Maestro]

In the PBEM 109 game I was successful in causing an insurrection in Bavaria. The diplomat used had a rating of 60, 40, 30,. It took three turns for it to do its job. I did not notice the attempts to expel him, but it should have been attempted.

Currently there are 2 Prussian diplomats in Egypt attempting to cause an insurrection. They have been there 2 turns without success. Lower Egypt has a court level of 5, perhaps that has some impact on the diplomats abilities.

I have tried, unsuccessfully, to expel those 2 diplomats for 2 turns. I am using both of my diplomats to accomplish that goal. The closest one is in an adjacent province, and the other was north of Constantenople. I'm moving the furthest one in closer to see if that has any impact. The reports indicate that both of my diplomats are attempting to expel the Prussians.

My best diplomat (who caused that infamous insurrection) has some pretty good ratings. However, even he had been expelled a couple of times from Austria and Russia-he is not superman.

So, perhaps this insurrection business is not all that bad. One thing it does for sure is to make it much more important for players to view the political reports.

[Anthropoid]

It still would be nice if military strength in a province had an effect, and also if a successful attempt was just one step toward knocking loose an entire multi-province nation. Some of those ones Mus and Lenin were talking about with 200K troops in the province and *poof* it shifts its allegiance just sounded unbelievable. Isn't that what they made grape-shot for in the first place? To oppress the peasants and keep them in line? [:D]

[lenin]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

It still would be nice if military strength in a province had an effect, and also if a successful attempt was just one step toward knocking loose an entire multi-province nation. Some of those ones Mus and Lenin were talking about with 200K troops in the province and *poof* it shifts its allegiance just sounded unbelievable. Isn't that what they made grape-shot for in the first place? To oppress the peasants and keep them in line? [:D]

Yeah, the multi-province expel does work, though it is of limited utility for countries whose diplomats have poor legal ratings, and who lack resources to build "uber diplomats" (I can't even kick out a "10"legal rating diplomat on my territory, but then again, I've experienced no further insurrections, though only have 1 diplomat trying it on now, rather than 3-4 a turn).

Some of the situations I experienced as Prussia (huge armies booted out by a token militia, depot destroyed, massive attrition)were just ludicrous. They just need to add a garrison / occupation quota, and make them slightly less easy and the problem is fixed.

Perhaps tweaking the "national" provinces of Spain and to a lesser degree France would help too? After all, the French revolution saw the birth of the nation state as a widespread model of "national" organisation. Before the birth of the nation state, the European monarchies were in fact highly balkanised and held together by patronage and fear. Even to this day, many of the provinces in Spain identify them selves as Basque, Gallician, Catalunyan etc, yet in EE, they are loyal Spanish national territory.