Maneuverability Ratings Screwy?

[cfulbright]

The MVR ratings for airplanes are dramatically different from stock WITP, particularly those for late-war Allied aircraft. Among the ratings are:

P-51H Mustang - 23
P-47N Thunderbolt - 17
F4U-4 Corsair - 20
P-51B Mustang - 18
P-51B Mustang - 16
F6F-3 Hellcat - 17
P-38G Lightning - 14
P-38J Lightning - 13
Walrus II - 37 !!!

On the other hand, some Japanese planes MVR ratings are:

Ki-43-Ic Oscar - 46
A5M4 Claude - 44
H8K2-L Emily - 18
G4M1-L Betty - 24

So unless you've changed the meaning of the MVR rating as used by Gary Grigsby in every one of his games since at least Pacific War in 1990 (and probably earlier), something is rotten in the Pacific.

Please clarify.

[medicff]

The MVR ratings are not the only factor in A2A battles now. I am not sure the exact formula but speed, altitude and rate of climb all play a part in determining the outcome.

The model is much improved and you will see this once you start seeing battles. The planes still perform as historical however the new formula does allow the opposition to occasionally get the upperhand or give the slip therefore no uber CAP.

[cfulbright]

I'll have to check that, but a quick look says that they CW-21B Demon with a 34 MVR and a 4500 Climb is going to kick butt against everything else in the game, particularly the Corsair which is a 4400 Climb and only a 22 MVR.

Seriously, is there a chance that the MVR figures are totally "whack" as my kids would say, and need to be fixed? Anyone from Matrix want to comment on this?

[Djordje]

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

I'll have to check that, but a quick look says that they CW-21B Demon with a 34 MVR and a 4500 Climb is going to kick butt against everything else in the game, particularly the Corsair which is a 4400 Climb and only a 22 MVR.

Seriously, is there a chance that the MVR figures are totally "whack" as my kids would say, and need to be fixed? Anyone from Matrix want to comment on this?

You forgot speed here which seems to be of much more importance now, so don't just look at MVR rating. Like Medicff said give the new system a try and you will see it is working well.

Climb speed is important for CAP missions, if you manage to detect incoming raid in time much more aircraft will be able to position them for combat. It might also have a role in combat itself, but to what extent is a mystery.

[EUBanana]

An Emily is more maneuverable than a Hellcat?

Seriously?

I'm curious now, whats a Swordfish's score? Biplane with a tight turning circle, after all...

[Erik Rutins]

Yes, we've changed the meaning of maneuver ratings completely. The differences from stock are entirely as designed and you cannot compare maneuver here to any previous Grigsby games. It is defined differently and used differently (the air combat engine is entirely different). The maneuver ratings are based on real world data, as are the other ratings, maneuver just reflects a different definition now and the results are actually more realistic IMHO in air combat as a result.

[cfulbright]

Djordje and Erik - OK, I'm going to suspend disbelief on this one. You have to understand - I've been playing Gary Grigsby games since the early 90's and the MVR rating for a Spitfire Vb, for example, hasn't changed in almost 20 years. So it was very disconcerting to see the MVR's in AE.

Thanks again for the response and the great game. I'm still plotting my first turn as Allies while working through the manual, so may have more questions to come.