How to stand a chance against AI uber-airforce

[TheTomDude]

I know what you think if you read the title, but how to stand a chance against an AI that has not to follow ANY rules and restrictions you have to follow.

Playing Japan, how can you even think about invading Port Moresby or even only bomb it from time to time? In my game the AI has some 120 Fighters/90 Bombers/150 Auxiliaries there. Every try to bomb the airfield from Rabaul is a total desaster even when escorted (btw escorting is almost useless) or pre-sweept. A massacre. Due to the fact that the Ai does not withdraw any Squadrons and has not to care about area restrictions (R) it has at least twice the number of planes on every hotspot since the beginning of the game (!).

Same with Java bases. There are some 20+ (!) airgroups on a lvl 4 airfield (!).
And AI 4E bombers are flying bombing runs from level 1 airfields on Sumatra (!).
The AI plays with dozens of NOT withdrawn squadrons with hundreds of planes while I had to withdraw all those during the last months.

How shall I, who has to follow rules like:

- having enough air support
- airfield size
- overstacking
- withdrawing

ever use my airforce against an enemy who does not have to follow any of these restrictions. If I am able to bring 50 or 100 fighters to the party (which is almost impossible), the AI can always bring twice the number with ease. i.e. All ABDA squadrons are located in PM, Darwin, Java and Mandalay. DEI forces are also everywhere. Tons of squardons.
And due to the fact that the AI gets an enormous bonus of some 600 planes of the most important to start with they all have almost full complements. While I can barely keep some 5-6 Oscar sqdrns in the air.

Now most of you will no say "The AI needs all help it can get" but this is just not fun anymore.

So any tipps how to survive this AI air superiority at least into 1943 as Japan?

[Flying Tiger]

ummmm. if you choose to play with 'no unit withdrawals' as Japan against the Allies, then i guess that is what you get!

if you want some help, play scenario 2 as Japan v allies.

[TheTomDude]

Well there's more than the "withdrawing" thing. Read my post again.
What about flying 4Es from lvl 1 airfields?
What about "no overstacking"?
What about "missing aviation support"?

[R8J]

I don't think those rules apply to the AI.

If so it gives the AI a chance.

If you want to shut Port Moresby down try a naval bombardment or two. A6M2s can provide CAP.

[Flying Tiger]

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

Well there's more than the "withdrawing" thing. Read my post again.
What about flying 4Es from lvl 1 airfields?
What about "no overstacking"?
What about "missing aviation support"?

I know - i was a bit harsh. The trouble is, we all complained SO much about the worthless AI in WitP that the AE team did everything possible to make this AI competitive - at the cost of almost all limitations on the AI. Believe me, it sucks as the Allies too. But i still prefer this than the mindless noggle of stock WitP. Maybe i will finally venture into PBEM territory - and drive my opponent nuts with slow turns, no turns, and then suddenly lots of turns!

My main complaint with your above list would be 4E bombers on Lvl 1 airfields. Are you sure about that? Nothing should fly offensive missions from a lvl 1 AF normally, so that is a bit over the top if it is so. Overstacking and lack of air support from the AI does not bother me to be honest.

[Peter Fisla]

TheTomDude,

I'm not surprised about the AI...it needs every help it can get. You have to realize that to code the kind of AI you are looking for (we all are) would take years to code and polish. Think about all what you are doing during a turn, strategic stuff, tactical stuff etc... think about the scope of the game...now think about what it would take to code the stuff you are doing. Never mind testing and debugging.

I played Coral Sea and saw how aggressive the AI is in AE version, so I decided to play as allies with no withdrawals. I think it kind of evens out the odds a bit vs the AI in AE since now I have to control all the allied nationalities like China, India, England which is a lot more work than the original WitP. 

[TheTomDude]

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

Well there's more than the "withdrawing" thing. Read my post again.
What about flying 4Es from lvl 1 airfields?
What about "no overstacking"?
What about "missing aviation support"?

I know - i was a bit harsh. The trouble is, we all complained SO much about the worthless AI in WitP that the AE team did everything possible to make this AI competitive - at the cost of almost all limitations on the AI. Believe me, it sucks as the Allies too. But i still prefer this than the mindless noggle of stock WitP. Maybe i will finally venture into PBEM territory - and drive my opponent nuts with slow turns, no turns, and then suddenly lots of turns!

My main complaint with your above list would be 4E bombers on Lvl 1 airfields. Are you sure about that? Nothing should fly offensive missions from a lvl 1 AF normally, so that is a bit over the top if it is so. Overstacking and lack of air support from the AI does not bother me to be honest.

Well yeah I know and really appreciate what has been done to improve WitP. Like you I surely enjoy AE even more than I enjoyed WitP. So don't get me wrong. It would be a veeeery long list of things I love with the new AE but I rather write down the things I don't like because there might be room for changes if others feel the same. And the reason for my post was to show that I don't like the new AI "cheats" (if we wanna call it that way) in AE. As has been said many times by the devs there is still room for improvement and my hopes are that the aforementioned things may be changed in future patches. Maybe there is some room for 2 or 3 more switches in the game prefs like "AI overstacking" or "AI av. support" so you can choose if you want to the AI to be able to use these "cheats". Maybe the devs read this and say"yeah we thought about this as well but had no time to implement it. So maybe we should patch it".
I never give up the hope to be heared. [;)]

EDIT: Btw. is it possible to turn "no withdrawl" off during a game or do you have to start a new game then?

[Erik Rutins]

Are you sure you have 4E AI bombers actually flying bombing missions from Level 1 airfields?

[Terminus]

All game AI's cheat. All of them. Without exception.

[pad152]

Well there's cheating and then really cheating. If the AI is flying 4E bombers for any airbase less then 4 or exceeding the stacking limits by more than 20-25%, I would say that's going a bit too far!

The trick with game AI's, is to do it so the player really doesn't notice.

I think The TomdDude should post a saved game in the tech support forum so someone can take a look!

[fbs]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to AAR forum?

Cheers [:D]
fbs

[TheTomDude]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Are you sure you have 4E AI bombers actually flying bombing missions from Level 1 airfields?

Yes I'm sure but unfortunately I don't have a pre-turn save. Only thing I can say is the AI flew twice air attacks from Langsa (46,74) Sumatra. It attacked some of my shipping off Alor Star (49,73) Malaya. This picture I took some 15-20 rounds later now where the Langsa airfield is still at lvl 1 and it's B-17s are still there. It has not flown any more attacks from there since then but maybe because I based some Oscars at Georgetown after the attacks.

[Captain57]

Boy, that would be be a bug for sure. I'm surprised the beta team didn't pick up on that.

[Flying Tiger]

I played Coral Sea and saw how aggressive the AI is in AE version, so I decided to play as allies with no withdrawals. I think it kind of evens out the odds a bit vs the AI in AE since now I have to control all the allied nationalities like China, India, England which is a lot more work than the original WitP.

so you are playing as the Allies? With no withdrawals?

Prepare to be darn bored by about mid 1942! In fact i think you will end up with WAY more airpower than you can even fit on your active bases.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

Well there's more than the "withdrawing" thing. Read my post again.
What about flying 4Es from lvl 1 airfields?
What about "no overstacking"?
What about "missing aviation support"?

I know - i was a bit harsh. The trouble is, we all complained SO much about the worthless AI in WitP that the AE team did everything possible to make this AI competitive - at the cost of almost all limitations on the AI. Believe me, it sucks as the Allies too. But i still prefer this than the mindless noggle of stock WitP. Maybe i will finally venture into PBEM territory - and drive my opponent nuts with slow turns, no turns, and then suddenly lots of turns!

My main complaint with your above list would be 4E bombers on Lvl 1 airfields. Are you sure about that? Nothing should fly offensive missions from a lvl 1 AF normally, so that is a bit over the top if it is so. Overstacking and lack of air support from the AI does not bother me to be honest.

Well yeah I know and really appreciate what has been done to improve WitP. Like you I surely enjoy AE even more than I enjoyed WitP. So don't get me wrong. It would be a veeeery long list of things I love with the new AE but I rather write down the things I don't like because there might be room for changes if others feel the same. And the reason for my post was to show that I don't like the new AI "cheats" (if we wanna call it that way) in AE. As has been said many times by the devs there is still room for improvement and my hopes are that the aforementioned things may be changed in future patches. Maybe there is some room for 2 or 3 more switches in the game prefs like "AI overstacking" or "AI av. support" so you can choose if you want to the AI to be able to use these "cheats". Maybe the devs read this and say"yeah we thought about this as well but had no time to implement it. So maybe we should patch it".
I never give up the hope to be heared. [;)]

EDIT: Btw. is it possible to turn "no withdrawl" off during a game or do you have to start a new game then?

Maybe the AI uber-cheats shoud be reserve for the hard and hardest games by degrees in addition to the other help the elevated games receive.