Empire point calculation

[Mus]

As Austria in our 1792nofrills game I went from 23 Empire score to 19 with no changes in the size of my territory.

What is up with this mechanic? It seems so buggy (see my post on population bug and have now added a comment on the "empire score" not crediting correctly for "conquered provinces in split entities which is supposed to be +2 per province but in reality is a big fat goose egg).

Check out these screenshots of Turn 14, before I lost empire status and was at 23 empire score:

[Mus]

Country details screen:

[Mus]

Turn 16, when I was at 19 empire score and lost empire status, even though my territory hadnt changed at all:

[Mus]

And my country details here as well:

[Mus]

I know there are Cultural modifiers and trade modifiers in the game, but the game still says I have the highest culture in the culture report. The trade modifier isnt large enough to explain the hit.

What could have caused a -4 hit to my empire score?

No territory lost.

Still highest culture in the game.

[and2]

I agree with Mus it is indeed strange and I can add that Spain just became an empire in the same turn as Austria lost empire rating.

A wild hypothesis could be that empire status or score in total is capped and it becomes a zero-sum game?

[Joram]

I don't have the rules in front of me so not sure but I do see your national morale took a big hit.  Presumably you lost a big battle?  I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

[ericbabe]

Remember that culture can affect the empire score.

I've stepped through the empire calculations, and they seem to be working as designed.  I posted in another thread about this: there may be some omissions in the documentation. I have not checked this yet.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Joram

I don't have the rules in front of me so not sure but I do see your national morale took a big hit.  Presumably you lost a big battle?  I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

The big hit to my morale is the -500 from losing empire status due to the mysterious sudden disappearance of 4 of my empire points, from 23 to 19 in one turn.

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Remember that culture can affect the empire score.

Right, thats what I was thinking, but I checked my culture and I am still 1st in Culture by a fairly wide margin, so it has to be something else.

An empire report would come in really handy right about now. I really dont understand where a -4 hit would come from like this so suddenly without me losing an territory and still being Culture leader.

[Mus]

I just got hit with a similar situation to this again in PBEM 109. Suddenly lost 4 empire points AGAIN with no territory loss on my part, still #1 in Trading, never was culture leader so that shouldn't have been a factor.

This is frustrating. What other factors influence Empire rating?

Eric? Anyone? This one is killing me as it seems to strike out of the blue, is totally unpredictable and I can't stop it because I don't understand the cause.

VERY FRUSTRATING.

[:@]

[aprezto]

Mus; also notice that I (as Prussia) have actually lost territory: Bavaria, but haven't lost empire status. What gives there?

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Mus; also notice that I (as Prussia) have actually lost territory: Bavaria, but haven't lost empire status. What gives there?

Next quarter is June, that's when you will lose it.

[06 Maestro]

This drop seems to have coincided with an unsuccessful treaty proposal. I wonder if there is linkage there?

[Mus]

Well, that isn't listed in the factors involved in Empire point calculation, plus the other factors are worth 1 or 2 points usually. Having a 4 pt hit over a failed diplomatic deal would make diplomacy pretty damn risky!

I am hoping somebody can tell me the cause of this eventually.

It is definetely NOT related to culture. In my one game I was and remain in 6th/7th place in culture before and after the 4 pt loss. In the other I was and remain in 1st place in culture. In both games I lost no territory before the loss. In both games other powers took control of territories on my list of Glory targets, but not provinces I would think of as "Homeland Provinces" that the manual states is a factor (2 point loss for each).

One is Malta in the GB game becoming a Spanish protectorate. The other was Genoa becoming a protectorate of France in my Austrian game.

Need help from WCS to get to the bottom of this.

[&o]

[ericbabe]

You might lose 3 points for Malta, depending on whether it's identified as British homeland in the scenario file.  I'll add a breakdown of empire points in the next patch.

[Mus]

Right, 3 points. The frustrating thing is I lost 4 empire points in both cases, so there is still an element of the weird here.

[aprezto]

Just had this occur during Denmark Too PBEM. I have all the previous saves, I don't lose territory, I don't lose culture standing via the report, I do lose some trade routes with minor nations that have been consumed by greater powers.

* I have read, but can't find, that you lose 2 empire points for no longer topping the trade list. I lose 4
* I can't tell whether I top the trade list - there appears to be no way to tell
* the loss of NM was enough to put me on -266 NM and this caused me to surrender in a war I was nowhere near losing. With the surrender offering 7200 points this is a pain to say the least.

[evwalt]

While doing some research on the problem in Danish Too, I suspect that the HIGHEST either merchant income or trade routes (not sure which) gets +4 empire points.

In our game, on the same turn as Britain LOST 4 points, Denmark (which had massively increased both trade routes and merchant income over that one month period) GAINED 4 points.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: aprezto

* the loss of NM was enough to put me on -266 NM and this caused me to surrender in a war I was nowhere near losing. With the surrender offering 7200 points this is a pain to say the least.

What?

You are only supposed to have a chance to be forced to surrender when you are under negative 750 NM.

Could you post a screenshot of your national morale report for that turn? I suspect your morale was adjusted upwards after surrender to -266 and was actually a great deal lower during the processing of the turn when you actually surrendered.

[evwalt]

You know, I thought it was -750 NM also but I SWEAR I read somewhere you had a percentage chance once you fell below -250 NM (the lower you got below that, the more chance you had to surrender).

Of course, now that I want to put my hands upon that, I can't.