Boise kicks some butt!

[crsutton]

Fighting ship.

[herwin]

Night Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 114,138, Range 1,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya
CA Kumano
DD Mutsuki
DD Uzuki, Shell hits 6, on fire
E Yunagi

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CLAA Juneau
CL Boise, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Gregory
DD Hutchins, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Swanson
DD Craven, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Cummings
DD Lamson
DD Perkins



Low visibility due to Rain with 75% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 75% moonlight: 1,000 yards
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
CL Boise sunk by CA Suzuya at 1,000 yards
CA Pensacola sunk by DD Uzuki at 1,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Cummings at 1,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Craven at 1,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Swanson at 1,000 yards
DD Hutchins engages DD Uzuki at 1,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Gregory at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD Craven at 2,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages DD Perkins at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Swanson at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Cummings at 2,000 yards
DD Craven engages DD Uzuki at 2,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages DD Hutchins at 2,000 yards
DD Gregory engages DD Uzuki at 2,000 yards
Task forces break off...

[Tiger_Rat]

I hate Boise, She is a transport taskforce wrecking machine. Anybody would think She had fifteen six-point-one inch guns!

[Shark7]

Nice rebuttal Herwin...

Suzuya and Kumano kick some butt!

[Tophat1815]

I from rather rude experience have seen Boise in action via pbem:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Cam Ranh Bay at 64,72, Range 16,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 43, and is sunk
CL Kashii, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Fubuki, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
DD Usugumo
DD Hakaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
TB Kari
PB Kantori Maru
xAK Sinsei Maru
AMC Saigon Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK India Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Victoria Maru, Shell hits 2
xAP Argentina Maru, Shell hits 1
xAP Baikal Maru

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Shell hits 5, on fire



Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF begins to get underway
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Boise at 16,000 yards
CL Boise engages CL Isuzu at 16,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages CL Boise at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Boise at 12,000 yards
DD Usugumo engages CL Boise at 12,000 yards
CL Boise engages TB Kari at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Boise at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Boise at 8,000 yards
CL Kashii engages CL Boise at 8,000 yards
DD Hakaze engages CL Boise at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CL Boise engages CA Chokai at 4,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Boise at 4,000 yards
CL Boise engages PB Kantori Maru at 4,000 yards
CL Boise engages AMC Saigon Maru at 4,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Victoria Maru at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Boise at 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages CL Kashii at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Isuzu engages CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages CA Chokai at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK India Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages CL Isuzu at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages AMC Saigon Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK India Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages CL Isuzu at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAP Argentina Maru at 2,000 yards
CA Chokai sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Isuzu engages CL Boise at 2,000 yards
xAP Baikal Maru , xAP Argentina Maru , xAK Victoria Maru screened from combat
- escorted by TB Kari , PB Kantori Maru
CL Kashii engages CL Boise at 2,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages CL Boise at 2,000 yards
Moran, E. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 3,000 yards
CL Isuzu engages CL Boise at 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK India Maru at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
xAP Baikal Maru , xAP Argentina Maru screened from combat
- escorted by DD Hakaze
CL Isuzu engages CL Boise at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
xAP Baikal Maru , xAP Argentina Maru , xAK Victoria Maru screened from combat
- escorted by CL Isuzu
CL Boise engages DD Hakaze at 12,000 yards
CL Boise engages TB Kari at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 17,000 yards
CL Isuzu engages CL Boise at 17,000 yards
DD Fubuki sunk by CL Boise at 17,000 yards
Range increases to 22,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Hakaze at 22,000 yards
Range increases to 26,000 yards
xAP Baikal Maru , xAP Argentina Maru , xAK Victoria Maru ,
xAK India Maru screened from combat
CL Boise engages DD Hakaze at 26,000 yards
Task forces break off...


Note: This isn't intended as crying but a rebuttal of herwin's rebuttal.[;)]

[DivePac88]

Boise in my PBEM (WitP) against Shark7 got sunk by a Light Carrier in a gunfight at night, with a little help from some Heavy Cruisers! [:(]

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Boise in my PBEM (WitP) against Shark7 got sunk by a Light Carrier in a gunfight at night, with a little help from some Heavy Cruisers! [:(]

In my encounter shown above Boise sailed into Cam Rahn Bay,shot the place up and sailed off into the sunset. I'd rather have had your outcome.[:D]

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Boise in my PBEM (WitP) against Shark7 got sunk by a Light Carrier in a gunfight at night, with a little help from some Heavy Cruisers! [:(]

Hehe, fear the 5in/40!

[Dili]

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 43, and is sunk
CL Kashii, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Fubuki, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
DD Usugumo
DD Hakaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
TB Kari
PB Kantori Maru
xAK Sinsei Maru
AMC Saigon Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK India Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Victoria Maru, Shell hits 2
xAP Argentina Maru, Shell hits 1
xAP Baikal Maru

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Shell hits 5, on fire

What a farse. I can't think of any instance how this could happen in daytime with 22 Kyds detection range.

[JohnDillworth]

The Boise was sold, and served with, the Argentine Navy. She served until 1978, when she was sold to, and scrapped in, JAPAN![:o]

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

The Boise was sold, and served with, the Argentine Navy. She served until 1978, when she was sold to, and scrapped in, JAPAN![:o]

Ironic isn't it?

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 43, and is sunk
CL Kashii, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Fubuki, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
DD Usugumo
DD Hakaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
TB Kari
PB Kantori Maru
xAK Sinsei Maru
AMC Saigon Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK India Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Victoria Maru, Shell hits 2
xAP Argentina Maru, Shell hits 1
xAP Baikal Maru

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Shell hits 5, on fire

What a farse. I can't think of any instance how this could happen in daytime with 22 Kyds detection range.

Well then let me inform you of just how it could happen.........."THUNDERSTORMS". Kept good ole Boise underwraps so my IJN Nells and Betty's never saw much less launched a torp against him.In this hex it says overcast I know,but my fleet was at anchor and had been waiting to load. Boise came tearing in and shot me up good. She targeted Chokai which took many hits rightoff including a "fire in control room"hit.

I think the combat model worked very well indeed! I can actually see this mess happening,storms cover approach and prevent air from taking her out,my ships all fat dumb and happy at anchor waiting to load for new invasions and some crazy US ship comes in shooting at anything in sight. If you say it can't happen in real life just look at Houston and Perth!

[Dili]

The game report refers visibility when Japanese detected :

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 28,000 yards

CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards. <--- a TF of only one ship.

If you say it can't happen in real life just look at Houston and Perth!

I don't see the point, they had no comparable adversaires. Unless the Japanese ships could not fire i don't see this happening.

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 43, and is sunk
CL Kashii, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Fubuki, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
DD Usugumo
DD Hakaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
TB Kari
PB Kantori Maru
xAK Sinsei Maru
AMC Saigon Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK India Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Victoria Maru, Shell hits 2
xAP Argentina Maru, Shell hits 1
xAP Baikal Maru

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Shell hits 5, on fire

What a farse. I can't think of any instance how this could happen in daytime with 22 Kyds detection range.

I think the salient point is

Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF begins to get underway

Completely unprepared japanese ships get hammered by a fully prepared Boise. However one caveat might be that the IJN ships should be at ready mode unless they are loading/unloading too.

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Dili

The game report refers visibility when Japanese detected :

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 28,000 yards

CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards. <--- a TF of only one ship.

If you say it can't happen in real life just look at Houston and Perth!

I don't see the point, they had no comparable adversaires. Unless the Japanese ships could not fire i don't see this happening.

We were at a dead stop,in harbor awaiting the opportune moment to load an invasion force. Ever hear of caught flat-footed? Somehow I very much doubt Boise was obeying harbor rules regarding speed restrictions in harbor. And my boys didn't see the enemy until they were 22,000 yards away and most probably closing rapidly.

Question for you,how long does it take a ship going at 27-31 knots to close range? Both started firing at 16K and progressed on down.

[denisonh]

Was the TF docked?

Bet there is a significant penalty for being docked when engaged in surface combat.

[jazman]

The Boise has been nerfed. By golly, she was the fightingest ship in the US Navy.

[Dili]

We were at a dead stop,in harbor awaiting the opportune moment to load an invasion force. Ever hear of caught flat-footed? Somehow I very much doubt Boise was obeying harbor rules regarding speed restrictions in harbor. And my boys didn't see the enemy until they were 22,000 yards away and most probably closing rapidly.

Question for you,how long does it take a ship going at 27-31 knots to close range? Both started firing at 16K and progressed on down.

Still doesn't make sense.In Torch, Jean Bart was in harbour couldn't even move, had only 4 guns vs 9 of Massassuchets and still had some rounds getting near the US BB. Here is Boise against 2 CA a CL and 3 DD's plus minor ships. Impossible.

The tendency of closing the range up to 2kyd in most daylight engagements is also unrealistic.

[denisonh]

Using the word "impossible" in the context of probable outcomes in combat is only approriate if there is a specific immutable limitation.

In this case, I would say that it is extremely unlikely.

That is why when evaluating the output from a combat model, you look at 30 or more outcomes to determine the range of outcomes. This outcome may be an outlier but most certainly not "impossible".

This isn't chess.

ORIGINAL: Dili

We were at a dead stop,in harbor awaiting the opportune moment to load an invasion force. Ever hear of caught flat-footed? Somehow I very much doubt Boise was obeying harbor rules regarding speed restrictions in harbor. And my boys didn't see the enemy until they were 22,000 yards away and most probably closing rapidly.

Question for you,how long does it take a ship going at 27-31 knots to close range? Both started firing at 16K and progressed on down.

Still doesn't make sense.In Torch, Jean Bart was in harbour couldn't even move, had only 4 guns vs 9 of Massassuchets and still had some rounds getting near the US BB. Here is Boise against 2 CA a CL and 3 DD's plus minor ships. Impossible.

The tendency of closing the range up to 2kyd in most daylight engagements is also unrealistic.

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: Dili

We were at a dead stop,in harbor awaiting the opportune moment to load an invasion force. Ever hear of caught flat-footed? Somehow I very much doubt Boise was obeying harbor rules regarding speed restrictions in harbor. And my boys didn't see the enemy until they were 22,000 yards away and most probably closing rapidly.

Question for you,how long does it take a ship going at 27-31 knots to close range? Both started firing at 16K and progressed on down.

Still doesn't make sense.In Torch, Jean Bart was in harbour couldn't even move, had only 4 guns vs 9 of Massassuchets and still had some rounds getting near the US BB. Here is Boise against 2 CA a CL and 3 DD's plus minor ships. Impossible.

The tendency of closing the range up to 2kyd in most daylight engagements is also unrealistic.

If you're such a fan of realism, why don't you play a game consisting of two turns - december 7 1941 with the sole event "War starts" and september 2 1945 with the sole event "Allied wins". That way you can skip all the "unrealism" in between...