BB's too fragile now?

[John Lansford]

In 4 months of campaign games (3 months the first one and 1 in the 2nd after the patch), the AI has had 4 BB's sunk. In the first one, Hiei went down from a single torpedo hit, and Kongo sank from a single 800kg hit by a lucky Dutch bomber.

In my 2nd CG, Yamashiro was pounded to bits by PoW at close range (a dozen or so 14" hits), and Hyuga was sunk by a PBY Catalina's torpedo hit.

That's three out of four BB's that sank from single hits. Some of this might be FoW stuff, but at least one of these sinkings were confirmed later on. Has anyone else noticed this?

OTOH, even some of my smaller cruisers have taken Long Lance torpedo hits and made it back to harbor without too much trouble. Java and Tromp have both been hit by LL torpedoes and are now in Singapore getting patched up.

[Mus]

Unless the single hit caused a catastrophic secondary explosion like a magazine going up single hit BB sinkings don't seem very plausible.

[EUBanana]

Maybe the AI does a sucking job of getting damaged BBs home in time.

[kirk23_MatrixForum]

Can't really help with that one,since I have always felt that ships are to easy to sink in the stock game,I never play the stock version,all my ships have increased AA weapons capability via the editor,plus better durability and manouverability,my version the ships give the planes as good as they get.[;)]

[John Lansford]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Maybe the AI does a sucking job of getting damaged BBs home in time.

That may be it; Hyuga was moored in (enemy controlled) Davao harbor when the PBY torpedoed it. Kongo and Hiei were cruising off of Palembang in my first CG and had been there for over a week, not doing anything but steaming in one or two hexes. It's possible that the damage routines telling the AI "get this ship repaired" aren't being triggered until the ship's crippled from fire or flooding, and then it's too late.

[Terminus]

Good grief... First merchies are "too fragile" and now it's battlewagons...[8|]

[John Lansford]

I think it's a bit unrealistic to sink 3 of 4 BB's with single hits, Terminus.  One sinking from a lucky magazine hit, sure, but 3?  My guys don't have LGB's or guided torpedoes, you know.

[tigercub]

something to keep a eye on, 3 losses to single hits is a little worry

Any more losses to single hits should posted here to give them all an idea of whats going on.


Tiger!

[Jensemann]

Didnt you say only one of thoose sinkings were confirmed?

[michaelm75au]

Without some save to look at and see what state the BBs were in, it is a bit hard to say what is right or wrong.

[Aterpa]

You should be very careful now with the sunk ships list. There is a lot of FOW! In my current game I thought I had sunk 3 USN BBs. But meanwhile all of them have been reported to be still in service. Sometimes it takes several months after the supposed sinking until you get the corrected report.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I think it's a bit unrealistic to sink 3 of 4 BB's with single hits, Terminus.  One sinking from a lucky magazine hit, sure, but 3?  My guys don't have LGB's or guided torpedoes, you know.

Are you playing with FOW on? I get a report of every ship I hit "sinking", but apparently they grow little wheels on the bottom and drive back to get fixed.

[EUBanana]

FOW is major, I saw CV Wasp take a sub torpedo and was promptly in my list as 'sunk', and I know full well it wasn't sunk.  Wasn't even left on heavy damage.

[Terminus]

There's one thing all you people seem to fail to grasp here. The ships ARE NOT DIFFERENT!!! They have the same armour, the same durability, the same maneuverability rating, everything.

What's different is what can go wrong with them. Pick up on that instead of harping on about "fragile" ships.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's one thing all you people seem to fail to grasp here. The ships ARE NOT DIFFERENT!!! They have the same armour, the same durability, the same maneuverability rating, everything.

What's different is what can go wrong with them. Pick up on that instead of harping on about "fragile" ships.

So the next battlecry will be "The FOW is Broken!" ???[:D]

[John Lansford]

It may be FoW; all those pilots and sub commanders reporting the ships sinking as they watch.  I'm thinking that Hyuga sinking from the torpedo hit may be accurate, though; after the PBY hit her the TF remained in the harbor and no longer reports the BB as being there.
 
Perhaps the ships aren't "fragile" but the AI isn't figuring out when to send them off for repairs before it is too late?  For example, an ABDA squadron sank Chiyoda last night, but an earlier TF had shot her up a few days before this one found her.  She was still in the same hex, only now burning, when the 2nd TF sank her.  I posted the AAR in the "surface combat" thread this morning.

[tigercub]

Good update thanks lots of people would not know that so it does help! his problem would be just FOW.

Tiger!

[jimh009]

All I know is that the Allied carrier air wings have bombed the hell out of Japanese BB's in my game, but most of the BB's seem to live on. Moreover, the bombing of Japanese BB's led to LOTS of air casualties for the Allies. It's the primary reason my carriers are now sitting in port...waiting for replacement aircraft. While I've sunk three Japanese BB's, it was anything but easy and cost-free and it required multiple air strikes over several days. Torpedoes, not surprisingly, are much more effective against BB's than bombs. The three BB's sunk in my game have the DevastatorsAvengers to thank for it...I don't think the 1000 pound bombs dropped on them did much damage.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I think it's a bit unrealistic to sink 3 of 4 BB's with single hits, Terminus.  One sinking from a lucky magazine hit, sure, but 3 ...

I had a US BB in a 15-ship TF sunk by a single torpedo from a Kate in the 'Canal scenario; although there was no mention of a magazine explosion, or other catastrophic event, I have seen these messages in more plausable sinkings, i.e., a Beaufort's bomb explodes the magazine of an IJN CA and down she goes: those long lance torpedoes were a two-edged sword.

BTW, I should have saved the screen-shot of an IJN SS releasing two torpedoes to sink its US counterpart as it sailed on the surface off its home port on the Aussie coast!

Is it possible that the LLs are too powerful in AE?

[John Lansford]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I think it's a bit unrealistic to sink 3 of 4 BB's with single hits, Terminus.  One sinking from a lucky magazine hit, sure, but 3 ...

I had a US BB in a 15-ship TF sunk by a single torpedo from a Kate in the 'Canal scenario; although there was no mention of a magazine explosion, or other catastrophic event, I have seen these messages in more plausable sinkings, i.e., a Beaufort's bomb explodes the magazine of an IJN CA and down she goes: those long lance torpedoes were a two-edged sword.

BTW, I should have saved the screen-shot of an IJN SS releasing two torpedoes to sink its US counterpart as it sailed on the surface off its home port on the Aussie coast!

Is it possible that the LLs are too powerful in AE?

Heh; I'm 1 for 1 when it comes to subs sinking other subs. One of mine torpedoed an
I-boat and sank it, just this morning one of my damaged subs was headed for Manila when an I-boat found and torpedoed him.

As for the LL's being too powerful, not from what I've seen. PoW took a LL in a melee and only suffered 20+ flotation damage. I also had both Java and Perth (both smallish CL's) get LL'ed and made it to Singapore with moderate damage. I've not had many ships get hit with them so far so my observations may just be on the low side of the bell curve, though.