Shooting down B-17s

[TheTomDude]

Is it possible for the Jap player to shoot down B-17? I'm 9 months in the game and my fighters (Oscars and Zeros) seem to be unable to shoot down B-17s. Although it seems the AI has some damaged bombers on let's say every 2nd raid I only managed to shoot down maybe 5 of them until now in 9 months. Is that accurate? The best I can get is having the bombers turn back without unloading their bomb load over my bases. But as I said it seems almost impossible for a CAP to down B-17s even if its 3:1. And B-17s are never escorted by allied fighters. Just curious if that's intended.

[51st Highland Div]

Maybe the firepower of the IJN and IJA aircraft makes it hard to shoot down B-17s ie in terms of firepower vs durability...remember reading on the web a few days ago re a IJN ace in a zero on the tail of an F4F firing away all guns blazing for seconds trying to down the allied plane...

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

Is it possible for the Jap player to shoot down B-17? I'm 9 months in the game and my fighters (Oscars and Zeros) seem to be unable to shoot down B-17s. Although it seems the AI has some damaged bombers on let's say every 2nd raid I only managed to shoot down maybe 5 of them until now in 9 months. Is that accurate? The best I can get is having the bombers turn back without unloading their bomb load over my bases. But as I said it seems almost impossible for a CAP to down B-17s even if its 3:1. And B-17s are never escorted by allied fighters. Just curious if that's intended.

Maybe bad luck? I've played 20 turns of grand campaing against AI now, and I've shot down 6 B-17D and 6 B-17E. I just loaded allied side and checked the losses.

BTW, one japanese float plane ace killed at least one B-17 when flying Pete. Although he did shot it down, he rammed it and survived... Later he shot down two more 4E bombers as a Rufe and Rex pilot. Can't remember his name...

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

Is it possible for the Jap player to shoot down B-17? I'm 9 months in the game and my fighters (Oscars and Zeros) seem to be unable to shoot down B-17s. Although it seems the AI has some damaged bombers on let's say every 2nd raid I only managed to shoot down maybe 5 of them until now in 9 months. Is that accurate? The best I can get is having the bombers turn back without unloading their bomb load over my bases. But as I said it seems almost impossible for a CAP to down B-17s even if its 3:1. And B-17s are never escorted by allied fighters. Just curious if that's intended.

The zero is going to have hard time with B-17 (especially the early models) due to not enough ammo for cannon and B-17 being very strong build bomber. Oscar I is even worse than Zero in terms weapon loadout.

[morganbj]

I lost beaucoup B17's so far.  The Ds especially, the Es somewhat less so.
 

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

BTW, one japanese float plane ace killed at least one B-17 when flying Pete. Although he did shot it down, he rammed it and survived... Later he shot down two more 4E bombers as a Rufe and Rex pilot. Can't remember his name...

Kiyomi Katsuki from the Chitose[;)]

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Puhis

BTW, one japanese float plane ace killed at least one B-17 when flying Pete. Although he did shot it down, he rammed it and survived... Later he shot down two more 4E bombers as a Rufe and Rex pilot. Can't remember his name...

Kiyomi Katsuki from the Chitose[;)]

Right!
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/japan_katsuki.htm

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Puhis

BTW, one japanese float plane ace killed at least one B-17 when flying Pete. Although he did shot it down, he rammed it and survived... Later he shot down two more 4E bombers as a Rufe and Rex pilot. Can't remember his name...

Kiyomi Katsuki from the Chitose[;)]

Rammed it? With a Pete? THAT is some major-league cajones![X(]

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Puhis

BTW, one japanese float plane ace killed at least one B-17 when flying Pete. Although he did shot it down, he rammed it and survived... Later he shot down two more 4E bombers as a Rufe and Rex pilot. Can't remember his name...

Kiyomi Katsuki from the Chitose[;)]

Rammed it? With a Pete? THAT is some major-league cajones![X(]

On 4 October 1942, while flying combat air patrol over the fleet in his ‘Pete’, he spotted four enemy fighters and five B-17s. In order to prevent the bombers from hitting the seaplane carrier Nisshin, Katsuki dove on the leading B-17 (B-17E of the 72nd BS, flown by Lieutenant David C. Everitt Jr.) and commenced his attack. After completing his pass, he rammed the aircraft from below, tearing the right main wing and the vertical stabiliser off the bomber and damaging his own right wing. Together with his observer he baled out of his stricken aircraft and both were rescued by the destroyer Akisuki. The crew of the B-17 all perished.

[pmelheck1]

Just go into the editor set the durability of the allied bombers to 1 and those pesky bombers will start dropping like flies!

[SuluSea]

Why not? 1 bullet per B-17 sounds about right. Fits right in with the Emperors 6 months to Wade McCluskey training program and empty USN CVs.

I'd like to apologize to the folks that worked hard on this game for this remark. Obviously I still feel strongly about it but I should have constructed my comments in a more decent fashion. Sorry.

[rockmedic109]

Oscars?  Didn't they have two 7.7mm machine guns?  Kinda anemic when hunting big game.  They wouldn't do more than piss off an elephant and the B-17 is bigger.

[pmelheck1]

What year are you in?  I'm in mar of 42 and I have less then 70 B-17E's in the pacific.  I have used my bombers only once or twice then have to wait a couple of weeks for replacements and repairs.  Even the A24's I received in Australia ware wiped out in 2-3 days of fighting, never received a single replacement and were withdrawn with 1-2 planes in each squadron.  I've had to abandon Port Moresby it's only got 50 fights at the base with no replacements in the pool while the Japanese are sending 70 Zeros everyday doing sweeps with 1000 fights in the pool.  Isn't hard to figure out how that one's going to end.  Can't get ships to the port as the betties sink every thing within range wither it has fighter cap or not (in my current game betties have a 50-80% hit rate, 10 get through your going to loose 3-5 ships, and they always attack with torpedoes)

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Oscars?  Didn't they have two 7.7mm machine guns?  Kinda anemic when hunting big game.  They wouldn't do more than piss off an elephant and the B-17 is bigger.

Ki-43-Ia was armed with 2 × 7.7 mm machine guns
Ki-43-Ib was armed with one 12.7 mm machine gun and one 7.7 mm machine gun
Ki-43-Ic was armed with 2 × 12.7 mm
Late war model Ki-43-IIIb was armed with two 20 mm cannons.

[invernomuto]

ORIGINAL: TheTomDude

Is it possible for the Jap player to shoot down B-17? I'm 9 months in the game and my fighters (Oscars and Zeros) seem to be unable to shoot down B-17s. Although it seems the AI has some damaged bombers on let's say every 2nd raid I only managed to shoot down maybe 5 of them until now in 9 months. Is that accurate? The best I can get is having the bombers turn back without unloading their bomb load over my bases. But as I said it seems almost impossible for a CAP to down B-17s even if its 3:1. And B-17s are never escorted by allied fighters. Just curious if that's intended.

Oscar is quite useless against B-17, BUT sometimes a damaged B-17 is lost due to op losses. In my game the AI is using those beasts at extended range. If you can damage one or two bombers, even with the oscars, it's unlikely that they will get home safe.
Zeros are quite effective. I put them on CAP at 15.000 - 20.000 fts and I had some kills.

[JeffroK]

Scen 1

Aug 42

I have lost 18 B17E, 9 in A2A combat

I believe all have been killed by Nicks over PM.

I'm flying them at around 15k so as to get some hits, if I went higher I could minimize losses and effect.

But I only have 70ish effective B17's E & F models), they have just moved to 12 plane squadrons.

They probably use up more resources than they destroy but they are about the only offensive weapon available.

[Sheytan]

I pulled the PI B17s back to the DEI, and they have done stellar work bombing ground targets allowing me to actually counterattack landings and retake objectives in the DEI. My A24s are in PM and in Rabaul running naval attack missions, escorted by the P40s that AUS gets. Only thing that can hit me at Rabaul is the Bettys currently and the P40s and P39s I have there are doing a good job protecting my convoys.

BTW I set the P39s to naval attack as well and they plastered a IJ convoy while set to attack at 100 feet. Nailing the convoy with bombs primarily.

ORIGINAL: mullk

What year are you in?  I'm in mar of 42 and I have less then 70 B-17E's in the pacific.  I have used my bombers only once or twice then have to wait a couple of weeks for replacements and repairs.  Even the A24's I received in Australia ware wiped out in 2-3 days of fighting, never received a single replacement and were withdrawn with 1-2 planes in each squadron.  I've had to abandon Port Moresby it's only got 50 fights at the base with no replacements in the pool while the Japanese are sending 70 Zeros everyday doing sweeps with 1000 fights in the pool.  Isn't hard to figure out how that one's going to end.  Can't get ships to the port as the betties sink every thing within range wither it has fighter cap or not (in my current game betties have a 50-80% hit rate, 10 get through your going to loose 3-5 ships, and they always attack with torpedoes)

[Brady]

This screan from my Ai Test Game(IronMan scenario#10), shows they can be shot down, though I belave they were all friendly fire instances[:)], I also use them with some regularity, though I take care to use them from the right sized airfields and rest them to minamise op losses.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Why not? 1 bullet per B-17 sounds about right. Fits right in with the Emperors 6 months to Wade McCluskey training program and empty USN CVs.

I'd like to apologize to the folks that worked hard on this game for this remark. Obviously I still feel strongly about it but I should have constructed my comments in a more decent fashion. Sorry.

[Cribtop]

It is hard to shoot them down, but IJNAF and IJAAF fighters weren't optimized as interceptors. Lack of firepower.

In AE, what is the best Japanese fighter for the interceptor/point defense role and when does it arrive?