Directive 21 playtesters thread

[sPzAbt653]

...captured equipment is "converted into standard German equipment".
Are there maybe details about what is converted into what?

This is to say that for the most part, the equipment that is standard to the German/Axis Force is used. There is no actual calculation of conversion. There are a few exceptions, like some T-34's in a few of the Axis units.

...the Panther production numbers that are around 6000...

The 2/3 of total production was the overall starting point, adjustments were made to these numbers where necessary. More Panzers were on the East Front as this was where most of the Pz Divs were for most of the war. And obviously when some of those units are moved to the West Front, they take their tanks with them. Your calculation of 6900 does seem high, how did you arrive at that number?

any intention of adding more events?

We're interested in any possibilities that anyone comes up with, but I would add that over the past years, most possibilities have been considered, so it would be difficult to come up with something new and exciting. In general, due to the scale and complexity of the scenario, I'm against adding in anything that would take away from the actual purpose of the scenario, that is to control the Axis side in a reasonable way. Some would like it easier, some would like it more complex. Any suggestions will be looked at for consideration. Except for production. It's been gone over and found to be correct more than enough, and we don't need to waste time on it. For your specific idea, if we decrease in 1945, we need to increase for '43 and '44, and decrease for '42. It would accomplish nothing for a large amount of work. No problem with asking about it, though.

Thanks Big Duke! Do you plan on playing the scenario ?

[BigDuke66]

Your calculation of 6900 does seem high, how did you arrive at that number?

Well I counted the Panthers that can be found in German units in the scenario dump text file, of course I didn't count from units that don't arrive in the scenario(turn 500 units) and then added 185 turns each with 28 Panthers to it, I think it was 6911 definetly somehting in the 69xx. I din't take the +5% from the Speer event also not the 2 -5% events into the calculation.

Thanks Big Duke! Do you plan on playing the scenario ?

I think about it but a long overdue PC upgrade is on my list and that will consume a lot time so I'm afraid this has to wait.

[sPzAbt653]

Panthers - 184 turns at 28 per turn = 5,152. The 51st and 52nd Panther Abts. arrive with 76 each, but are disbanded a couple months later. Only a few of the late entering units arrive with Panthers, all the rest arive with none on hand.

That leaves the 1944 Pz Brigades. The player has the choice to have or not have them. If 'not' is chosen, they do not arrive, and a couple 'Bonus Tank' units are disbanded to throw Panthers into the equipment inventory. If you go through the dump, this may not be apparent, so you might end up double counting quite a few. Maybe that's where the discrepancy is.

[BigDuke66]

I found those:
Enters by turn:
76 51st Pz Abt,OKH Pz Abt
76 52nd Pz Abt,OKH Pz Abt
34 FHH Pz KG,Feldherrnhalle
34 FHH PzG KG,Feldherrnhalle
71 DR Pz Reg/1, PzG Das Reich
79 1. LAH Pz Reg,1. Pz Div LAH
79 2. DR Pz Reg,2. Das Reich
79 HG Pz Reg,Fallsch Pz Dv HG
528

Turn 500 units:
49 Model A,1944 Pz Div
49 Model B,1944 Pz Div
98

Enters by event(339)
33 101st Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
33 102nd Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
32 103rd Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
33 104th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
33 105th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
33 106th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
33 107th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
33 108th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
46 109th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
46 110th Panzer Bde,Panzer Brigades
355

Enters by event(458)
250 Bonus Tanks 1,Disband Event
250 Bonus Tanks 2,Disband Event
250 Bonus Tanks 3,Disband Event
750

OK event 339 cancels event 458 but the Player gets either 10 Brigades with 355 Panthers or 3 Bonus units with 750 Panthers?
Still if you only take the ones that enter by turn & the brigades you end up with 6035 that still seems a lot but surely looks better then before.

[sPzAbt653]

Then consider which units with Panthers did not see service on the East Front. 26th Pz Div in Italy is the only one I can think of. 21st Pz Div and Pz Lehr both saw action on the East Front, but were not included in D21 (in part due to limited service). The bulk of Panthers that were on the West Front were in units taken from the East Front. In D21 these units are withdrawn for service on the West Front, so you might want to take their 'on hand' Panthers out of the inventory, at some point in time. Overall, the numbers seem to be correct.

...either 10 Brigades with 355 Panthers or 3 Bonus units with 750 Panthers?

If I remember correctly, this was based on the idea that the Brigades (mini Pz Divs) took more resources to develop and organize. As opposed to the idea that those efforts would have been better spent on an increase in Panthers (therefore a Theater Option). Historically, Hitlers' Mini Pz Divs were a failure, and they were disbanded within a few months and distrubuted as reinforcements to other units.

[BigDuke66]

Thanks for the clarification, sounds all more plausible with your explanations.

Still what you said earlier over the German production did not really convince me especially when looking into some numbers.
A lot areas reached their productions peaks between July 1944 and January 1945 so I wonder if the German player gets too much early in the game but too few later in the game.
Well the latter doesn't seem to be a problem as the first makes it easier to be much more successful then historically and with that achieve a comfortable bolster for the later phase of the war so there wouldn't be a chance of losing the game.
It also worries me that this would normally have lead to production rates not raising much if at all and delayed introduction of new weapon types.

In 1942 there was still the opinion that higher production rates for 1943 were not needed also there was no reason of getting new weapons rushed into production because after the successful summer offensive that would without doubt crush the Soviets and with that would finally give a chance to concentrate on England and for that a priority on the Luftwaffe & Marine.
Only Stalingrad showed the weakness of the Wehrmacht, the fact that the Soviets were far away from collapse and the need for higher production & superior equipment.


I know that delaying equipment isn’t possible as far as I know but maybe a lower replacement rate till a “Stalingrad event”(that would for sure need an extreme careful event chain) is triggered that sets of a chain of events for higher replacements that raise the production up till the Soviets get closer to Germany and the losses of raw material sources(that started to dwindle historically in 1944) from the occupied country’s & the other Axis members together with the massive bombardments in the west start to have an impact on the replacements.
So in short:
-Low till an event shows the need for higher production & superior equipment
-Then Raise it steady as long as Germany can keep Europe & the east occupied and its Allies in the war
-Lower it steady(with a delay) depending on what is lost in the east and which German Allies bail out of the war

What do you think about it?

[sPzAbt653]

Turn 25 (9-14-41) with the new Elmer. I'll post some shots along the front line from south to north. In these first two shots, you can see that I left the Rumanians in defensive positions while moving the 11th Army to northern Rumania. 11th Army then struck across the Prut and Dneister Rivers, and turned to the east and then southeast to outflank the Soviet defenses.

[sPzAbt653]

Here is the 11th Army on the move to outflank the Soviet forces.

[sPzAbt653]

As the forward elements move towards Nikollayev, the 7th FJ was dropped there to cut the last road/rail connection with the Soviet forces to the west. The Soviets will still get supply thru the port at Odessa.

[sPzAbt653]

After clearing the west Ukraine of Soviet forces, the 17th Army and 1st Panzer Army are on the move down the south/west bank of the Dneiper River.

[sPzAbt653]

Elmer has put up a decent defense in the Kiev area. I took quite a bit of casualties reaching these current positions, so for now I am on the defensive until I come up with a good plan for getting across the river and outflanking the Soviet defense.

[sPzAbt653]

North of Kiev, Elmer is blocking the river crossings. The German 1st Kavalry Division and a few other units are ready to force the river, to see if they can make something happen in this area.

[sPzAbt653]

A little further north, Elmer is defending the west bank of the Dneiper.

[sPzAbt653]

More of the same in the Mogilev area.

[sPzAbt653]

Elmer didn't do so good in the the Vitebsk area and to the northeast of there. I'll have to take a look at his objectives to see if I can make him stronger here.

[sPzAbt653]

Elmer looks a little thin around Velikiye Luki, but I suspect he has more units hidden in the dense terrain in the area.

[sPzAbt653]

Elmer put up a big roadblock at Pskov, and it's taking me a few turns to reduce it.

[sPzAbt653]

Moving into the rough terrain on the approaches to Leningrad.

[sPzAbt653]

The Finns are pushing towards Leningrad, although Elmer has made some good attacks with a couple of his tank divisions.

[sPzAbt653]

North of Lake Ladoga, it doesn't take much for Elmer to block the advance routes. I suppose I might try to send a few units into the 'dense forest' to see if I can outflank him.