Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony)

[jwilkerson]

12/18/1941

Results

Here is an editing combat report

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 18, 41
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Morning Air attack on 8th Indian Brigade, at 51,76

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 22
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 51



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses: Our bombers strike enemy troops in support of a ground attack
455 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 47 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 8 (0 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)

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Morning Air attack on 69th Chinese Corps, at 89,46

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 21



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-30 Ann: 1 damaged


Allied ground losses: ditto - one of our tank battalions is attacking here
69 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

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Morning Air attack on 112th Infantry Regiment, at 58,56 (Rahaeng)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ia Oscar x 7



Allied aircraft
Blenheim IF x 7


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ia Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses We actually think we got three of these "fighters"
Blenheim IF: 2 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Blenheim IF attacking from 100 feet

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Morning Air attack on 112th Infantry Regiment, at 58,56 (Rahaeng)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ia Oscar x 2



Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 6


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

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Afternoon Air attack on 11th Chinese/C Corps, at 94,35

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 20



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses: A number of small Chinese units are trying to cut rail lines in Northern China, we will counter them with IMB and Air
50 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb



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Afternoon Air attack on 42nd Infantry Regiment, at 50,74

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 1



Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 9
Hudson I x 13


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses: We still have no air power at Alor Setar so will have to slow our advance in the face of Allied bombers
68 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


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Afternoon Air attack on Saigon , at 60,71

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9



Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 13


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses We think one of the monsters crashed on the way home ...
B-17D Fortress: 7 damaged

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Afternoon Air attack on Kyuko Naval Guard Unit, at 85,53 (Kiukiang)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft Even when escorted by AVG, Chinese bombers cannot accomplish much
H81-A3 x 12
SB-III x 4


No Allied losses

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Pre-Invasion action off Kuching

4 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
xAP Kobe Maru, Shell hits 1
SC Ch 9
SC Ch 7

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


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Ground combat at Sinyang (86,48)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6753 troops, 91 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 174

Defending force 22699 troops, 150 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 412


Allied ground losses: Our mountain guns aren't able to do much either
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
52nd Road Const Co
11th Army
67th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
13th Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps


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Ground combat at 89,46

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 528 troops, 0 guns, 50 vehicles, Assault Value = 29

Defending force 189 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 56

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 56 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender:
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+)


Allied ground losses: Chinese unit "surrendered" !!!
Units destroyed 1


Assaulting units:
15th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
69th Chinese Corps


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Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3273 troops, 153 guns, 131 vehicles, Assault Value = 570

Defending force 6887 troops, 131 guns, 61 vehicles, Assault Value = 132

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Allied ground losses: Our heavy guns continue to pound the HK defenders
111 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
38th Division
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Rifles of Canada Battalion
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Hong Kong Fortress
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force


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Ground combat at 51,76

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3958 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 112

Defending force 2389 troops, 16 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 51

Japanese adjusted assault: 89

Allied adjusted defense: 16

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses: Former defenders of Kota Bharu are routed
725 casualties reported
Squads: 47 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 58 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Units retreated 3


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
56th Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
FMSV Brigade
8th Indian Brigade
3rd ISF Base Force

[jwilkerson]

12/19/1941

IndoChina
Convoys carrying 21ID (bound for Malaya) 33ID (bound for Burma) and 56ID (bound for Malaya) are departing from Cam Ranh Bay this turn under escort of crusier and destroyer forces.

20 B-17s bomb Komphong Trach but do no damage. We are moving a Nate Sentai here from Singora. Having two Nate Sentai's at Singora was not doing us any good.

Borneo
Troops and supply have unloaded at Kuching, so we will assault the base next turn.

Hong Kong
Yet another assault fails, we will wait a few days and try again.

Singyang
Chinese now have seven Corps, we have 2 Brigades an HQ and a couple of Artillery units (and a level-4 fort) not sure we can hold, but we are sending some more troops in case we do.

[PzB74]

Are Chinese troops a bit to "substantial" in AE Joe?

In most books I've read about WWII in China the poorly armed and motivated peasent armies usually faded away in the night each time the Japanese attacked. In AE the Chinese are even capable enough to launch multiple offensive actions in the beginning of the war.

Is this another abstraction? (Just have to ask since this is often the reply [;)])
 

[jwilkerson]

Well, might be too early (in the game lifecycle) to give a "definitive" answer. In testing, I've usually seen the Japanese be able to survive, though things can be a bit dicey in the beginning, thanks to the multitude of little Chinese units running around in the Japanese rear. But methodical play, clear objectives, etc. seems to be able to "clarify" the situation in a few months. I have not seen any "romps" by either side, but I have seen the Japanese be able to turn Chinese hordes back.

WITP_0 (the SPI board game) as well as WITP_1 (the 2by3 game) all suffer from weak modeling of the Chinese theater. It could be that trying to include this "war within the war" is just too much. But it is there in WITP and it is there in AE. As near as I can tell the strategies are pretty much the same in both. Both sides have some offensive capability - and from this capability comes the defensive ability of both sides. The "revolving door". If someone attacks in area A, then they are probably weak in area B. What makes AE interesting is less ability to see what the other side is doing.

[PzB74]

China / Manchukuo are integral parts of the war, but maybe limited player interference here could indeed be the better solution. Include the Hong Kong fight and let the Jap player control the coastal cities and then let the AI play the historical war out on its own.

Can you test one thing in your game?
- I posted my suspicions that surface combat TF's with AMC's will always try to avoid combat as AMC's are considered as non-combatants by the AI (or something similar).

Several times I've witnessed that mmy AMC surface combat TF has engaged the enemy only to experience again and again that "both sides attempt to disengage".

(Think my previous post dissappeared in the general muddle of the thread:)

[jwilkerson]

Well in PBEM you can make some sort of "truce" agreement for China. I've done this in about half the long running PBEM games I've done (WITP and AE). Or you can enjoy the "game within the game" even though it will rarely resemblem the historical activity. The net/net results may be historical (neither side can win) but the means of achieving this may be different (most of my games see a lot of revolving door activity - though little of strategic consequence - unless either player makes a big mistake - or the house rules about not moving troops out of Manchuko without paying PP are not followed - or the Japanese player decides to not focus on taking the SRA and throws lots of resources into China)

Rather than test AMC in our game (which might take a long time) I'll try to test in a test game. Note that patch 01 dramatically revamps surface combat, though if AMC is treated as a non-combatant, not sure that is changed. I did not see that issue discussed.

[jwilkerson]

21 December 1941

China

Chinese tried shock attack at Sinyang. We held on but took 1000 casualties to their 700 (plus an additional 200 to our artillery fire). Our 116ID should arrive next turn, so that should stabilize things for a while.
In Southern China our "attack wing" has assembled West of Shanghai and now includes: 17ID, 1st, 2nd, 6th Hvy Arty, 4th Mortar Bn and 13 Army HQ.

Hong Kong
We will try an attack next turn. Once we are successful, the 38ID will move to Burma.

Malaya
21ID and elements of 56ID are finally unloading at Singora, it took extra time to get them here due to escort requirements.

South China Sea
We now have a Zero Chutai, a Babs Chutai and a Betty Sentai at Kuching. The 35th Brigade will now plan for Palembang as is the 21st Brigade now railing to Cam Ramh Bay.
The 33ID will arrrive at Bankok next turn to reinforce the drive on Moulmein.

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Well in PBEM you can make some sort of "truce" agreement for China. I've done this in about half the long running PBEM games I've done (WITP and AE). Or you can enjoy the "game within the game" even though it will rarely resemblem the historical activity. The net/net results may be historical (neither side can win) but the means of achieving this may be different (most of my games see a lot of revolving door activity - though little of strategic consequence - unless either player makes a big mistake - or the house rules about not moving troops out of Manchuko without paying PP are not followed - or the Japanese player decides to not focus on taking the SRA and throws lots of resources into China)

Rather than test AMC in our game (which might take a long time) I'll try to test in a test game. Note that patch 01 dramatically revamps surface combat, though if AMC is treated as a non-combatant, not sure that is changed. I did not see that issue discussed.

AMC's do attack unescorted ships. I got a rather nasty shock when two Japanese AMC's intercepted the Queen Elizabeth some 800 miles southeast of Christmas Island, luckily without consequence.

[jwilkerson]

21 December 1941

Resources/Production:

Except for Naval Yard points, things are looking good. We did accelerate the Shoho for Nik this turn, she should arrive in 17 turns at Yokohama, but this will deplete our Naval points.

A6M2 production has reached 68 while Oscar Ic are at 66 (monthly figures).

[jwilkerson]

To sort of compare to erstad's game ... our pilot pool 2 weeks in ... note I am running the IJA (mostly) and Nik is running the IJN (mostly). I have taken very few IJA pilots thus far, preferring to consolidate units and then train up more or less whole units later.

[jwilkerson]

And the reserve pool ...

[jwilkerson]

12/22-23/1941

China
We switched to 2-day turns for this turn (this feature will probably be made public in patch 02). Biggest disappointment was Hong Kong. We attacked and got 1 to 2 odds (this is 4th or 5th attack since start of war) our troops are in pretty good shape and we had bombing support, but looks like Hong Kong defenders are getting stronger while we are getting weaker! Or earlier attacks were 1 to 1 odds! We did cause more causualties that we took however. But then we did not attack on the second day.

Otherwise, at Singyang our 116ID arrived giving us enough infantry to hang on a bit longer.

We now have 3 divisions and 2 Brigades (plus supporting units) ready to start the "central drive" on Nanyang.

And the 17ID (plus supprting units - has started a drive from Shanghai towards Nanchang in the South. We just upgrade the 24 Nates at Nanchang to Oscars to try to retard AVG activities in this area.

Luzon
We will attack San Fernando this turn - it is empty so it should fall, then we will advance to Lingayen. We have most of 48ID and 16ID ashore now, so bulk of combat component of 14 Army is aboard Luzon.

Borneo
Our submarines continue to do miserably while Allied submarines do well. One of our I-boats stumbled into a mine field off NW Borneo and is limping home to Saigon. A Dutch boat sank one of our PB patroling off Kuching. At least our PB can "catch torpedoes" so that our real ships can avoid them. The Betty's at Kuching will fly a high intensity naval search mission this turn to see if they can discourage any Allied shipping in the area.

Malaya
Allied bombers raked over our troops this turn. We will attack at Taiping.

[jwilkerson]

12/22-23/1941

South China
Here is pic of South China showing start of drive on Chushien and possible followup drives on Wuchang and/or Nanchang. We will need at least one more IMB prior to starting the second phase operations.

[Micke II]

Interesting reading where I can pick ideas to define a strategy in my own PBEM game.
There is not yet too much AAR from the japanese side !
AE has brought a interesting contribution to what has been really the war in China: chinese guerilla with superior japanese troops which are constantly under the threat to be surrounded or to have lines of communications cut. Japanese garrisons are held with second or third quality troops which will make a easy target for chinese troops (NCPC infantry brigades unable to fight)
It would be certainly interesting to know more what is happening in central and south Pacific.
I hope Nik will bring his contribution in this AAR.

Concerning your reserve pilots pool do you have added instructors in it ?

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Micke II

Interesting reading where I can pick ideas to define a strategy in my own PBEM game.
There is not yet too much AAR from the japanese side !
AE has brought a interesting contribution to what has been really the war in China: chinese guerilla with superior japanese troops which are constantly under the threat to be surrounded or to have lines of communications cut. Japanese garrisons are held with second or third quality troops which will make a easy target for chinese troops (NCPC infantry brigades unable to fight)

As to China, I'll post a screen shot of North China as well. Up there Tony is moving some of his troops to try to block my rail lines. I am moving my troops around to keep my rail lines open. This activity is a purposeful "simulation" of "partisan" activity, though depending on how each side plays this phase may not last that long. In the game, it is probably easier to track down these units than it would be IRL.

It would be certainly interesting to know more what is happening in central and south Pacific.
I hope Nik will bring his contribution in this AAR.

Not that much yet. Nik has take most of Northern New Guinea, but has not gone for Rabaul or anything farther South yet.

Concerning your reserve pilots pool do you have added instructors in it ?

Negatif, I have not messed around with the reserve pilot pool.

[sval062]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Negatif, I have not messed around with the reserve pilot pool.

Hummm!!! so, is it a good idea to put experienced pilots on training command?
I did in my PBEM, but after one month did not see a rise in the experiense of new pilots coming to the front (nor a drop [:D]).

So, what is the exact impact when you have 10-13 pilots on training command?

[jwilkerson]

12/22-23/1941

North China
Here is screen shot showing Tony's (usually) small Chinese units trying to go sit on our railways and our (usually either Japanese Brigades or puppet Chinese units) trying to block them and if possible attack and eliminate them. One of several "wars within the war". [:)]

Back when I played China against Rob what eventually stopped me from having all this fun similar to what Tony is doing, was the cost in VP of the troops I keep losing. After that we actually reduced the VP cost of the Chinese troop oses, specifically to encourage the continuance of this type of activity.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: sval
Hummm!!! so, is it a good idea to put experienced pilots on training command?
I did in my PBEM, but after one month did not see a rise in the experiense of new pilots coming to the front (nor a drop [:D]).

So, what is the exact impact when you have 10-13 pilots on training command?

I don't use training command, even I do not know how it works - and I can't afford experimenting in a real game!!! [:)]

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: sval

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Negatif, I have not messed around with the reserve pilot pool.

Hummm!!! so, is it a good idea to put experienced pilots on training command?
I did in my PBEM, but after one month did not see a rise in the experiense of new pilots coming to the front (nor a drop [:D]).

So, what is the exact impact when you have 10-13 pilots on training command?

That is a great question. Post Beta Patch I have dumped 10 pilots into the training pool ( I am playing against the AI at the moment ). I am trusting the developers that it makes sense to do so. But I must admit that I did not come up with a way to easily tell if the experienced pilots are actually helping. If I get a quiet enough weekend I think I might run a game against the AI for a while with no training pilots, then go back to a save point and try 10 or 12 trainers just to see if I can tell a difference. I have been too laz to do that so far [:)]

And sorry to hijack your AAR. [:(]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: stuman

ORIGINAL: sval

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Negatif, I have not messed around with the reserve pilot pool.

Hummm!!! so, is it a good idea to put experienced pilots on training command?
I did in my PBEM, but after one month did not see a rise in the experiense of new pilots coming to the front (nor a drop [:D]).

So, what is the exact impact when you have 10-13 pilots on training command?

That is a great question. Post Beta Patch I have dumped 10 pilots into the training pool ( I am playing against the AI at the moment ). I am trusting the developers that it makes sense to do so. But I must admit that I did not come up with a way to easily tell if the experienced pilots are actually helping. If I get a quiet enough weekend I think I might run a game against the AI for a while with no training pilots, then go back to a save point and try 10 or 12 trainers just to see if I can tell a difference. I have been too laz to do that so far [:)]

And sorry to hijack your AAR. [:(]

10 pilots doesn´t sound that much if you think about how many trainees there are. To test it, I would send a hundred pilots back and watch what will happen. But I guess you won´t see much within a couple of months so I don´t know if it would be worth it.