Naval Threat Assessment ~ The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939

[Extraneous]

United States of America
US east coast
CV ~ Ranger ~ ATT 1, DEF 7, AA 2, CV 4 (Royal blue), Move 5, Range 5
1x Battleship Move 4, Range 4; 2x Battleship Move 4, Range 3
8x Cruisers Move 6, Range 5
5x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 3; 3x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 5

US west coast
CV ~ Enterprise ~ ATT 1, DEF 6, AA 3, CV 4 (Royal blue), Move 6, Range 4
CV ~ Lexington ~ ATT 3, DEF 5, AA 3, CV 4 (Royal blue), Move 6, Range 4
CV ~ Yorktown ~ ATT 1, DEF 6, AA 2, CV 4 (Royal blue), Move 6, Range 4
10x Battleships Move 4, Range 4
9x Cruisers Move 6, Range 5
5x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 3; 5x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 5

Honolulu ~ 15 CP

USA ~ 4 Trs; 12 CP; 3 Submarines; 7 CVP

Average CVP Draw
1 Lt Blue
2 Orange
4 Royal blue
7 Total


United Soviet Socialist Republics
Baltic Sea ports
2x Battleships Move 4, Range 2
1x Cruiser Move 4, Range 2

Black Sea ports
1x Battleship Move 4, Range 2
1x Cruiser Move 5, Range 2
3x Light Cruisers Move 4, Range 2

Europe ~ 2 Submarines

Asian/Pacific ~ 2 Submarines

Any maps ~ 1 Trs; 3 CP


Italy
Italy or Albania ~ 1 Frogman; 2 Trs; 3 Submarines; 7 CP
2x Battleships Move 5, Range 2
10x Cruisers Move 6, Range 2; 1x Cruiser Move 5, Range 2; 1 Cruiser Move 4, Range 3
8x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 2; 1x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 3; 1x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 2


China ~ None


Commonwealth
Europe
CV ~ Ark Royal ~ ATT 1, DEF 6, AA 3, CV 3 (Green), Move 5, Range 4
CV ~ Courageous ~ ATT 1, DEF 6, AA 2, CV 2 (Orange), Move 5, Range 3
CV ~ Furious ~ ATT 2, DEF 6, AA 2, CV 2 (Orange), Move 5, Range 3
CVL ~ Argus ~ ATT 0, DEF 9, AA 0, CV 1 (Lt Blue), Move 4, Range 2
CVL ~ Hermes ~ ATT 1, DEF 7, AA 0, CV 1 (Lt Blue), Move 4, Range 2
2x Battleships Move 5, Range 3; 1x Battleship Move 5, Range 2; 8x Battleships Move 4, Range 4; 1x Battleship Move 4, Range 3
7x Cruisers Move 6, Range 6; 1x Cruiser Move 6, Range 4; 3x Cruisers Move 5, Range 4
4x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 3; 1x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 2

1x ASW


Asia/Pacific
CV ~ Glorious ~ ATT 1, DEF 6, AA 3, CV 2 (Orange), Move 5, Range 3
CVL ~ Eagle ~ ATT 2, DEF 6, AA 1, CV 1 (Lt Blue), Move 4, Range 2
1x Battleship Move 4, Range 4
7x Cruisers Move 6, Range 6; 5x Cruisers Move 5, Range 5
1x Light Cruiser Move 6, Range 5; 2x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 3; 1x Light Cruiser Move 5, Range 2; 1x Light Cruiser Move 4, Range 2


America
2x Cruisers Move 5, Range 5
4x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 5; 1x Light Cruiser Move 6, Range 3; 4x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 2


Any map ~ 4 Trs; 2 Submarines; 81 CP; 8 CVP

Average CVP Draw
4 Lt Blue
2 Orange
2 Green
8 Total


France
Europe
CV ~ Bearn ~ ATT 1, DEF 7, AA 1, CV 2 (Orange), Move 4, Range 3
2x Battleship Move 5, Range 2; 4x Battleship Move 4, Range 2
4x Cruisers Move 6, Range 2; 1x Cruiser Move 5, Range 4; 3x Cruisers Move 5, Range 3; 1x Cruiser Move 5, Range 2
1x Light Cruiser Move 6, Range 3; 6x Light Cruiser Move 5, Range 3; 1x Light Cruiser Move 4, Range 3

1 Submarine

Asia/Pacific
1x Cruiser Move 6, Range 2

Any maps ~ 1 Trs; 10 CP; 1 Submarine; 2 CVP

Average CVP Draw
1 Lt Blue
1 Orange
2 Total


Japan
Asia/Pacific
CV ~ Akagi ~ ATT 2, DEF 5, AA 2, CV 4 (Royal blue), Move 5, Range 4
CV ~ Hiryu ~ ATT 2, DEF 7, AA 2, CV 3 (Green), Move 6, Range 5
CV ~ Kaga ~ ATT 3, DEF 5, AA 2, CV 4 (Royal blue), Move 5, Range 5
CV ~ Ryujo ~ ATT 1, DEF 8, AA 1, CV 2 (Orange), Move 5, Range 5
CV ~ Soryu ~ ATT 1, DEF 7, AA 2, CV 3 (Green), Move 6, Range 5
CVL ~ Hosho ~ ATT 0, DEF 9, AA 0, CV 1 (Lt Blue), Move 4, Range 4
3x Battleships Move 5, Range 5; 6x Battleships Move 4, Range 4
14x Cruisers Move 6, Range 4; 1x Cruiser Move 3, Range 2
10x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 4; 5x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 4; 2x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 3; 1x Light Cruiser Move 4, Range 2

Average CVP Draw
4 Lt Blue
2 Orange
2 Green
1 Royal blue
9 Total


Germany
Europe
2x Battleships Move 6, Range 3; 2x Battleships Move 3, Range 2
2x Cruisers Move 6, Range 3; 2x Cruisers Move 5, Range 5
4x Light Cruisers Move 6, Range 3; 2x Light Cruisers Move 5, Range 3

1 Amph; 1 Trs; 11 CP; 2 Submarines

[ItBurns]

I'm curious about the average CVP draw - are those the averages without any scraping?  I know I'd do a lot of scraping during setup to get rid of many obsolecent planes.

[composer99]

In our table top game here in Ottawa the CW player did not scrap any old cvp0s, and ended up fielding Nimrods pretty much through all of 1939-1940 aside from the odd Swordfish.

[Extraneous]

Before scraping. Because I have no idea what you want to scrap.

If the CW scraps the Osprey's and Baffin's they may not have CVP's on all of their CVL's.


United States of America

100 / 27 available CVP = 3.7% per available CVP

5 available Lt Blue CVP x 3.7 = 18.5 rounded to 19%
8 available Orange CVP x 3.7 = 29.6 rounded to 30%
14 available Royal blue CVP x 3.7 = 51.8 rounded to 52%

7 drawable CVP x 0.19 (19%) = 1.33 rounded to Average draw 1 Lt Blue CVP
7 drawable CVP x 0.3 (30%) = 2.1 rounded to Average draw 2 Orange CVP
7 drawable CVP x 0.52 (52%) = 3.64 rounded to Average draw 4 Royal blue CVP


Commonwealth (Osprey's and Baffin's scrapped)

100 / 18 available CVP = 5.5% per available CVP

6 available Lt Blue CVP x 5.5 = 33%
6 available 0range CVP x 5.5 = 33%
6 available Green CVP x 5.5 = 33%

8 drawable CVP x 0.33 (33%) = 2.6 rounded to Average draw 3 Lt Blue CVP
8 drawable CVP x 0.33 (33%) = 2.6 rounded to Average draw 3 0range CVP
8 drawable CVP x 0.33 (33%) = 2.6 rounded to Average draw 3 Green CVP

[ItBurns]

I wasn't thinking in terms of the CW with their smaller carriers but in terms of the US and Japan who start with larger carriers and plentiful Smaller CVP.  Generally I like doubling up on carriers for greater anti-ship factors so I only get rid of the truly abysmal CVP.

[composer99]

In terms of a threat analysis, it would also be worth noting the range/movement of at least the German, Japanese & CW battleships and cruisers at the start of a Global War campaign.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL:  composer99

In terms of a threat analysis, it would also be worth noting the range/movement of at least the German, Japanese & CW battleships and cruisers at the start of a Global War campaign.

But then it would become a summary not an assessment and no one would need to download the spreadsheet at Froonp's site.
 

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL:  ItBurns

I wasn't thinking in terms of the CW with their smaller carriers but in terms of the US and Japan who start with larger carriers and plentiful Smaller CVP.  Generally I like doubling up on carriers for greater anti-ship factors so I only get rid of the truly abysmal CVP.

Just the F3F’s and Goshawk’s (BF2C) or more?

[brian brian]

The CW cvp quality is so low I scrap all that I can. I don't care if a few CVL's are left short for several turns...you don't have the pilots to man them anyway, and the Polish pilots can hop in to more exciting rides like their surplus of LND-3 or NAV-2. The CW needs to have those 4-range Gladiators on the fleet carriers desperately and drawing a bunch of old Baffins instead hurts them more than not being able to deploy all of their carriers for a few turns. The Argus and the Hermes don't have the mobility to intervene where you would like; though the Eagle is good to cover the eastern Med with a Nimrod on board.

I also think playing with double carrier planes is one of the sillier fantasy rules I have come across. Fleet carriers carried at most about 80 planes I think so to put two plane counters on one is stretching things too much for my taste.

[composer99]

@ Extraneous:

What I mean is that unless you know where the ships can reach, you don't really know what kind of a threat they may present. All that is also contingent on where they are set up. For example: Japan can probably ignore the CW Asia-Pacific fleet if it sets up in South Africa or Aden (although the fast cruisers can make the 3-box in the South China Sea from Aden); but if it is in Calcutta or Singapore (especially if the subs are based there) then it needs to watch out.

[brian brian]

SUBs in Singapore. I like that idea, just to make the Japanese wonder a little.

[composer99]

Next time I play the CW I might just set them up there just to see if the Japanese player reacts (he might have a good poker face).

[WarHunter]

It should be noted that playing any scenario, other than Global war, will probably result in a CV with no compatible air component. Scrap or no scrap, its the luck of the draw. The later the scenario start date, the more scraping being done.

I would suggest to anyone playing the Global war scenario, do not scrap any Aircraft for CV's. (except France, Scrap early scrap often and keep only the best for the single CV.)
The main reason for this, is that CVP's that cost zero build points can be used to keep aircraft gearing limits higher, than if you scrap them. Crappy or not they fuel the economy. imho

take it for what it's worth.

[brian brian]

sorry, you will regret that if you draw all of the early 30s planes and not enough of the 38-39 planes for the CW. for the other powers that's not a big deal. the gearing advantages are a little overrated compared to the first few battles your CVs might be in on the first few turns. I scrap a good amount as the Japanese and US as well, since a few extra BPs are worth more to me than being able to add aircraft gearing for free.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The CW cvp quality is so low I scrap all that I can. I don't care if a few CVL's are left short for several turns...you don't have the pilots to man them anyway

Are you under the asumption that you have to use Pilots for CVP's at setup?


If you don't like a CVP you draw you could move it to the reserve pool this would add a Pilot to your total

Then you could use that Pilot to move another aircraft unit or CVP from the reserve pool to the map.

ORIGINAL: composer99

@ Extraneous:

What I mean is that unless you know where the ships can reach, you don't really know what kind of a threat they may present. All that is also contingent on where they are set up. For example: Japan can probably ignore the CW Asia-Pacific fleet if it sets up in South Africa or Aden (although the fast cruisers can make the 3-box in the South China Sea from Aden); but if it is in Calcutta or Singapore (especially if the subs are based there) then it needs to watch out.

Feel free to add this information to the thread.

[michaelbaldur]

Are you under the asumption that you have to use Pilots for CVP's at setup?


If you don't like a CVP you draw you could move it to the reserve pool this would add a Pilot to your total

Then you could use that Pilot to move another aircraft unit or CVP from the reserve pool to the map.

first in the 2. turn reinforcement phase..... that will give you a turn without some CVP ..... as cw agaist italy any cvp can be very importend ....

and cvp in the north sea and in the convoy rutes .... can force naval air combat .... forcing germany to spend 4 surprice point ...

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL:  michaelbaldur
 

Are you under the asumption that you have to use Pilots for CVP's at setup?
 
 
If you don't like a CVP you draw you could move it to the reserve pool this would add a Pilot to your total
 
Then you could use that Pilot to move another aircraft unit or CVP from the reserve pool to the map.

 
first in the 2. turn reinforcement phase..... that will give you a turn without some CVP ..... as cw agaist italy any cvp can be very importend ....
 
and cvp in the north sea and in the convoy rutes .... can force naval air combat .... forcing germany to spend 4 surprice point ...

 
 
Not sure what you mean here:
 
First in the 2. turn reinforcement phase..... That will give you a turn without some CVP
 
 
Not sure what you mean but is this close?
 
As the CW player against Italy any CVP can be very important.
 
CVP in the North Sea and in the convoy routes can select a “Naval air combat” forcing Germany to spend 4 surprise points.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL:  michaelbaldur

Are you under the asumption that you have to use Pilots for CVP's at setup?


If you don't like a CVP you draw you could move it to the reserve pool this would add a Pilot to your total

Then you could use that Pilot to move another aircraft unit or CVP from the reserve pool to the map.

first in the 2. turn reinforcement phase..... that will give you a turn without some CVP ..... as cw agaist italy any cvp can be very importend ....

and cvp in the north sea and in the convoy rutes .... can force naval air combat .... forcing germany to spend 4 surprice point ...

Not sure what you mean here:

First in the 2. turn reinforcement phase..... That will give you a turn without some CVP


Not sure what you mean but is this close?

As the CW player against Italy any CVP can be very important.

CVP in the North Sea and in the convoy routes can select a “Naval air combat” forcing Germany to spend 4 surprise points.

I mean ...if you do not setup all cvp ... you can first setup more in the nov/dec reinforcement phase .... that will give you the sep/oct turn without all cvp .... I will setup all cvp ... then I can later change them for some better ones ... I will wait for the jan/feb turn to upgrade my cvp force ... where I can get better cvp on my carriers..

[ItBurns]

For the US and Japan I'm planing on the best possible 1941 CVP's so its the navy I'm likely to have bye then along with the size of the planes I will have by then.
 
For the US I scrap, F3F, BF2C, SBC-4, TBD from 1937 and before, and 1936 F4F-3.
 
For Japan Everything 1934 and before, the 2 A5M4s with no anti-ship, and the one D3A1 from 1935 with a 1 anti-ship.
 
For CW, Ospreys, and all Nimrods.  That leaves me with 2 BAffins that are size 1 in 1939 along with 3 other CVP's that will turn into size ones come 1940.
 

[composer99]

If playing with CVP the CW will have 2 carriers without planes no matter what you scrap or don't scrap.

On average, even scrapping CVP aggressively (which I routinely do as the CW) I will usually be able to fill all 5 CV/CVL that I have pilots for. At most I will typically be short 1 carrier plane. For me, the massive increase in quality from scrapping the old CVP is well worth any temporary on-map concerns in 1939 when the Axis are going to have a hard time hurting me anyway.

This is all personal preference, so I hope the AIO will have a selection of scrapping options ranging from none to all eligible planes (after all, sometimes a Nimrod is better than nothing).