Mac vs PC?

[Marc von Martial]

Stability comes from the software and drivers used to run it so there's no real competition here between the two stabily competition comes from the designers of software complying with the OS of the specific computers.

Sorry, I have to object. Stability very well comes also from hardware itself. Prime example RAM.

Does Dosbox work on a Mac?

There is even a MacOs version of Dosbox.

Will Macs run PC games without an emulator?

Yes with either Bootcamp or Parallels or any of the other solutions.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

If both platforms are equal in regard to hardware nowadays, one could simply purchase a retail version of Apple's OSX and install it on his PC. There would be no reason to buy a genuine Mac anymore, unless he wants it for the the design factor.

IIRC, Apple does not allow that option.

[killroyishere]

Yes with either Bootcamp or Parallels or any of the other solutions.

Sounds like emulators to me. Because Mac is not a PC and thus must use a secondary programs to operate PC programs.

Plus I've never had stability issues with RAM. All the stability issues I've ever had have been with drivers and either hardware developers not complying or the OS not compatible with the drivers. I've had no hardware issues with PC vs RAM or bios or any other onboard hardware. Besides bad ram would be the same in either computer system. Bad ram is bad ram it has nothing to do with the OS.

[noxious]

Hey, use google and check it out : modern Macs can double boot windows, just like a PC does windows/linux.
They are PCs without a legacy BIOS, it's the one and only difference hardware wise with a DOS/Win PC.
Thus why it can run Windows XP and higher natively.

I was running a (raw) developer version of MacOS X on a standard PC 12 frikkin' years ago, it always ran on PCs, will run on standard PC if you know what you're doing (not supported by Apple)

So instead of trying to find fault with Macs, do yourself a favour and try to learn a few things or two.
Parallels is a virtualization system, just like what is used by the 64 bit versino of Windows to run 32 bit program, not emulate them.
Bootcamp is a boot manager, like LILO, or the Windows boot menu.

I don't own a modern Mac at the moment, only a Toshiba laptop running Vista 64
No fanboi of Apple at all, quite the contrary, but at least that doesn't taint my judgement.
Sheesh !!

[Nikademus]

I'm not a fan of Parallels as it caused a number of glitzes on the Macbook we were using. It also took a huge preformance hit when trying to use Adobe software for Windows. Bootcamp is neat....and free, and there's no preformance hit since your only operating one OS at a time. Mostly trouble free. Like anything....not perfect though..... A bootcamp attempt on GF's new Imac caused the primary hard drive volumes to corrupt and could not be fixed using the Mac tools available. Had to reformat the entire drive and reinstall OS-X. That did not make the GF unit happy and she has currently forbidden any immediate attempts to reinstall XP on the Imac. On the laptop though...never had a problem though if you want to install SP3 for XP you have to ensure you have the latest version of Bootcamp otherwise you'll get an error msg that there's not enough memory or some such for the install to continue.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Yes with either Bootcamp or Parallels or any of the other solutions.

Sounds like emulators to me. Because Mac is not a PC and thus must use a secondary programs to operate PC programs.

Not an emulator at all. Simply a tool to access your Windows XP (which is installed and works on the Mac, just like on a PC) directly without the need to actually shut down your running MacOS. So basically you are running two OS at the same time. If you want without even noticing it.

If you want, but it is not the primary use of Parallels, you can install almost any OS in a virtual hardrive too. So you can either use it as boot manager or virtualizer.

Plus I've never had stability issues with RAM. All the stability issues I've ever had have been with drivers and either hardware developers not complying or the OS not compatible with the drivers. I've had no hardware issues with PC vs RAM or bios or any other onboard hardware.

Just because you did not have them does not mean they do not exist and my point that hardware causes also stability issues would not be valid [&:]
Be thankfull, there might be the day hardware problems hit you.

Besides bad ram would be the same in either computer system. Bad ram is bad ram it has nothing to do with the OS.

Right, but where did I say it is not happening on Macs (or other plattforms)?

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Lützow

If both platforms are equal in regard to hardware nowadays, one could simply purchase a retail version of Apple's OSX and install it on his PC. There would be no reason to buy a genuine Mac anymore, unless he wants it for the the design factor.

IIRC, Apple does not allow that option.

What's the name of the Stick manufactured by a Swiss company? You just need a Mac OS and you're ready to go.
For quite a while the Stick only worked on certain PC mainboards erm hmm some manufacturer starting with "E" .. Epox? Elitegroup?
The Stick totally emulates a Mac, with the performance of a recent Mac (or even better), with the sugar (that you can use most recent PC hardware and upgrade the CPU) on top. ! [:D]
I forgot the name of the stick.

Whatsoever, Apple was pretty quiet when being asked by magazines what they think about that genuine stick. If I'm not mistaken, Swiss and German laws don't follow EULA rules that restrict users to install an OS on a certain hardware/brand, so it's totally legal here. Apple said "no comment". [:D]

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

Stability comes from the software and drivers used to run it so there's no real competition here between the two stabily competition comes from the designers of software complying with the OS of the specific computers.

Sorry, I have to object. Stability very well comes also from hardware itself. Prime example RAM.

Ram? You either have quality RAM strips, or cheap "no-name" RAM with faulty SPDs or address ranges. If the mainboard and its chipset is well designed - this goes for Mac boards and PC boards alike, RAM shouldn't have any stability issues.
Didn't you just state that Macs use more similar hardware or even PC hardware than some people think? [:)]
If so, you end up with the very same RAM that's being used in PCs, with most (if not all) desktop Macs. You should then also mention that Macs act allergic when they are fed with certain PC-RAM strips, forcing the users to look for Mac certified strips, so your "prime" example may indicate that Macs can be quite picky with some PC hardware, no? [:)]
With the exception of ASUS PC mainboards (which tend to dislike no-name RAM), I didn't come across picky PC boards, yet.

Unstable RAM is either a result of faulty RAM (mostly faulty SPD units on the memory-strip) or a result of the bad design of a controller chipset. While recent PCs still offer some downward compatibility even down (or back - if you will) to the DOS era, the hardware employed these days is really powerful. Astounding transfer rates exclusively seen in Apple's SCSI systems for years had been matched by SATA systems quite some time ago.

Stability stands or falls with the quality of the OS and its architecture, and with the quality of the application written for a particular OS. If the hardware strictly complies with international specs, it shouldn't produce any instability these days. It's usually the software (OS or App) that fails or that creates instabilities.
Instabilities are often assumed to be caused by hardware, but - especially with PCs- they mainly use to be caused by the inability (or unwillingness) of software developers to cater for many different hardware mixes. On top of that some hardware manufacturers provide badly programmed drivers or their hardware design causes conflicts with other hardware not included/present during driver testing.

Confusing? Well, but that's how I think things work these days.

Performance or a performance advantage comes from hardware. This could be seen in RISC CPUs when they were compared to PC CPUs, back then. Software (and OS) performance can be enhanced and optimized too, but only within the specs boundaries of the employed hardware.

That brings up a question in my mind: Can you upgrade Mac Pros?
(CPU, soundcards)?

I wonder, can Macs use DDR3 RAM? Afaik, Mac Pro's accept DDR2 RAM since 2008, at least.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

Stability comes from the software and drivers used to run it so there's no real competition here between the two stabily competition comes from the designers of software complying with the OS of the specific computers.

Sorry, I have to object. Stability very well comes also from hardware itself. Prime example RAM.

Ram? You either have quality RAM strips, or cheap "no-name" RAM with faulty SPDs or address ranges. If the mainboard and its chipset is well designed - this goes for Mac boards and PC boards alike, RAM shouldn't have any stability issues.
Didn't you just state that Macs use more similar hardware or even PC hardware than some people think?

I really wonder where people read that I said this can not happen with Macs?
Yes mostly it is RAM that is faulty or overheating that causes such stability issues. Proper in order RAM should not of course. Sorry if I was not specific anough in my short sentence [;)]

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

That brings up a question in my mind: Can you upgrade Mac Pros?
(CPU, soundcards)?

I wonder, can Macs use DDR3 RAM? Afaik, Mac Pro's accept DDR2 RAM since 2008, at least.

You can upgrade CPUs, it is not official but it is well documented in the "secret" Apple Maintenance book [;)]. You can upgrade video cards.
I'm not sure about an "upgrade" for the soundcard, but I rarely upgraded a sound card on a PC either.

The new "March 2009" Mac Pro's use DDR3 RAM, my Macbook Pro does either. The older models, as my Mac Pro use DDR2 RAM.

[Nikademus]

how difficult is an Imac to take apart?

[killroyishere]

Here's some million dollar questions. Can the MAC run 4800x resolutions? Can you build a MAC from scratch? (I want a link to the parts catalog), Can a MAC run 24mb of memory? Recently Intel developed the i7 which has no FSB does MAC have the same? Last but not least what are the costs differences between the two? I can build a very powerful PC for 2/3rds the cost of retail can that be said of MACS?

If we really look at the MAC deep down it is just "copying" the PC. They realized the PC has the market. MACS without the PC ability are nothing and only a handful of people would buy them without the PC element. So, let's put the credit where the credit is due. PC rules and MACS are just 2nd best.

[Nikademus]

"2nd Best"

I'd say based on my experiences that which computer runs better depends on which specific application is being used. As mentioned, the Adobe program suite seems to be better written for OS-X and runs mostly without the slowdowns and crashes experienced with the Windows version. On the same token, the animation app "Maya" seems to be the opposite, with the port for OS-X being (according to my GF) deliberately made poor in comparison to the PC (Windows) version. This latter app hogs all of GF's IMac memory and doesn't allow other apps to run in the background otherwise it locks up the computer.

[V22 Osprey]

Guys,

Come on now.....a Mac is a PC.A mac just has a slicker look case, weird mouse with no right click, different OS and the big Apple logo on the side.They use the exact same parts.That said, without Companies like Intel, AMD, and Nvidia coming out with new hardware for PCs, Macs would nothing.I hate it when people classify Macs as separate from PCs, they are the exact same thing.That's like me building a custom computer, slick case, my own little logo and make my own OS and I can call it "iOsprey" and say it's better and separate from PCs.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

...the Adobe program suite seems to be better written for OS-X and runs mostly without the slowdowns and crashes experienced with the Windows version.

CS3 never crashed on my Quad AMD (still using XP with SP3).

[Marc von Martial]

*sigh*

[Nikademus]

lol...

[mllange]

http://hacknmod.com/hack/how-to-install ... n-your-pc/

Just install the O/S on your PC and there ya go.

[vanmathi]

Macs are great for music and DJing and Partys and making videos and grapics. Also macs have better secity. They dont get viruses like windows. You can kind an mac for years. If you would like windows By a mac and just buy a window vista/XP software to operate those OS on your mac. And Windows they will be good for just any thing but they are not as cool and they get to many virus and repairs. Macs are SO easy. Google Why should I get a mac and you will agree
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[pepsi]

depends what u wanna do. if you want to do word processing,gaming,music storage. get a PC. If u want to do basic stuff and video and music editing, get a mac. Lol I like to ask mac users if they want to play minesweeper lol. If you do get a mac, please do not become a overly obssessed apple fanboy. both have pros and cons[/align]
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