Can we get a Developer to tell us in what order bases process industry ?
Such as HI first, then LI, then Aircraft, then Engines, etc...
Also, does the game process each base individually or all the HI first, then all the LI, etc...
This will really help planning our economy into '43 and beyond so we know exactly where our Resources and HI points are going... Thanks
Xargun
Industry Order
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Industry Order
Xargun,
I've raised the issue of HI accountability with the Developers, as I've found that the numbers are not adding up. Now that we have the exact numbers of what is produced, and if we eliminate the factors one by one, I've still noted a shortfall in the HI surplus, when compared to what should be built and remain after use. Now I never expect we are working in a bubble, but I believe there is more going on here than just spoilage (which iirc should not occur).
As to your question, I tested this and here are my initial findings.
[*]HI production is checked or has priority before LI production in regard to resources.
[*]HI production check is before OIL refinery production of fuel (unfortunately)
[*]Both Resource Centres and Oil Centres are checked (produce) after HI/LI/OilRef checks ... once again why ?
[*]Secondary Industries (Naval, Merchant, Arm, Veh) produce after HI points production. I'll see if I can test the HI to specific industries sometime later ...
[*]I've not done specific experiments with movement of Res/Oil/Fuel, but I think this occurs before these checks.
Other findings in the GC, include a few bases inland (Peiping for one) which never receive fuel and therefore never produce. Resources not being sent to bases needing them in Japan etc.
Hope this enlightens some, and maybe calls for some code change in the highly important but sometimes marginalised area of production.
--Damian--
I've raised the issue of HI accountability with the Developers, as I've found that the numbers are not adding up. Now that we have the exact numbers of what is produced, and if we eliminate the factors one by one, I've still noted a shortfall in the HI surplus, when compared to what should be built and remain after use. Now I never expect we are working in a bubble, but I believe there is more going on here than just spoilage (which iirc should not occur).
As to your question, I tested this and here are my initial findings.
[*]HI production is checked or has priority before LI production in regard to resources.
[*]HI production check is before OIL refinery production of fuel (unfortunately)
[*]Both Resource Centres and Oil Centres are checked (produce) after HI/LI/OilRef checks ... once again why ?
[*]Secondary Industries (Naval, Merchant, Arm, Veh) produce after HI points production. I'll see if I can test the HI to specific industries sometime later ...
[*]I've not done specific experiments with movement of Res/Oil/Fuel, but I think this occurs before these checks.
Other findings in the GC, include a few bases inland (Peiping for one) which never receive fuel and therefore never produce. Resources not being sent to bases needing them in Japan etc.
Hope this enlightens some, and maybe calls for some code change in the highly important but sometimes marginalised area of production.
--Damian--
RE: Industry Order
Damian,
Thanks for the reply. I personally have not had any chance to create a test environment and find these things out... yet. I'm not too worried if HI allocation is not 100% correct but more worried about if I want more aircraft built and am short HI will shutting off Vehicles factories help or not ?
As for HI using fuel produced this turn, that doesn't surprise me. I believe WitP was the same way - your HI ran before anything was produced, so you actually run off yesterday's efforts.
One thing I just thought of.. In your calculations, did you account for HI being spent on engines and aircraft in R&D ? These actually get produced but are not tracked (that I know of) by any means visible to the player. So if you are off 18HI one turn, you may have just produced an R&D engine somewhere. Same with aircraft.
What I want to do is setup a small map area and include some stockpiled fuel and resources and slowly add HI, LI, and the various factories until I can determine what exactly the order is.
Xargun
Thanks for the reply. I personally have not had any chance to create a test environment and find these things out... yet. I'm not too worried if HI allocation is not 100% correct but more worried about if I want more aircraft built and am short HI will shutting off Vehicles factories help or not ?
As for HI using fuel produced this turn, that doesn't surprise me. I believe WitP was the same way - your HI ran before anything was produced, so you actually run off yesterday's efforts.
One thing I just thought of.. In your calculations, did you account for HI being spent on engines and aircraft in R&D ? These actually get produced but are not tracked (that I know of) by any means visible to the player. So if you are off 18HI one turn, you may have just produced an R&D engine somewhere. Same with aircraft.
What I want to do is setup a small map area and include some stockpiled fuel and resources and slowly add HI, LI, and the various factories until I can determine what exactly the order is.
Xargun
RE: Industry Order
Xargun,
that is exactly my test bed, I used the Island cluster near Chichi Jima to get these results.
Thanks for the thought on R&D, I've never been totally sure that it costs HI, but because I deal with WitpTracker I can look into that area too... ( I'd like to convince Floyd to allow me to put it in ) Still I think there is another area I'm not looking into that might account for this. And it is not off by 18, but rather 300+.
I believe the order is HI, LI/Oref, ResC/OilC ... as to the other stuff, well if you find out please post as it would be nice to know.
that is exactly my test bed, I used the Island cluster near Chichi Jima to get these results.
Thanks for the thought on R&D, I've never been totally sure that it costs HI, but because I deal with WitpTracker I can look into that area too... ( I'd like to convince Floyd to allow me to put it in ) Still I think there is another area I'm not looking into that might account for this. And it is not off by 18, but rather 300+.
I believe the order is HI, LI/Oref, ResC/OilC ... as to the other stuff, well if you find out please post as it would be nice to know.
RE: Industry Order
ORIGINAL: n01487477
Thanks for the thought on R&D, I've never been totally sure that it costs HI, but because I deal with WitpTracker I can look into that area too... ( I'd like to convince Floyd to allow me to put it in ) Still I think there is another area I'm not looking into that might account for this. And it is not off by 18, but rather 300+.
300+ HI is not much to be honest. A lot of the planes that are in R&D are 2 engine planes, so thats 72 HI per plane - and it would not surprise me if we are making a couple of them daily, especially as you get further in '42. Add in R&D Engines and it could be it easily. Take your number and divide by 18. If it comes out even (or .9999999) or such then this it as engines and planes are all factors of 18. If its not, then we have another beast to slay.
Xargun
RE: Industry Order
Basicly is your question : Does R&D cost HI ?
Is that important?
According my Excel-files Japan spends at war-start 2020 HI/day on aircraft (R&D included)
Only 571 HI/day is needed for real production. The rest, so ~75% is R&D. We don't know if 1500HI/day is used or not. So it is VERY important !!
2 days ago I started the thread "Cost R&D aircraft HI ?"
I wonder if the Devs are looking at this forum. A simpel yes or no would do the job.
A same problem is excisting with Armaments. Look at my response of yesterday. Thousands of Manpower and Arm-points should have been used, but are not.
I bought WitPAE in the hope that certain flaws of WitP were solved. I think its even worse.
What to think of the manual-entry on page 179 that says that support consists of 15 man due to more .......
At the start of the war almost all Japanese LCU's are in lack of support. It seems that the program did not read the manual.
I consider it as a pity (and shame), that a beautifull program like this, can be hampered by such stupid matters.
The Devs have choosen the possibility of Production ON. So give the players realy that possibility. Not only for air, but also for sea and land. What do you think?
AvG
BTW: In my game Peiping has on dec 13 41 : fuel 120 and 40 fuel request. Seems OK (yet)
Is that important?
According my Excel-files Japan spends at war-start 2020 HI/day on aircraft (R&D included)
Only 571 HI/day is needed for real production. The rest, so ~75% is R&D. We don't know if 1500HI/day is used or not. So it is VERY important !!
2 days ago I started the thread "Cost R&D aircraft HI ?"
I wonder if the Devs are looking at this forum. A simpel yes or no would do the job.
A same problem is excisting with Armaments. Look at my response of yesterday. Thousands of Manpower and Arm-points should have been used, but are not.
I bought WitPAE in the hope that certain flaws of WitP were solved. I think its even worse.
What to think of the manual-entry on page 179 that says that support consists of 15 man due to more .......
At the start of the war almost all Japanese LCU's are in lack of support. It seems that the program did not read the manual.
I consider it as a pity (and shame), that a beautifull program like this, can be hampered by such stupid matters.
The Devs have choosen the possibility of Production ON. So give the players realy that possibility. Not only for air, but also for sea and land. What do you think?
AvG
BTW: In my game Peiping has on dec 13 41 : fuel 120 and 40 fuel request. Seems OK (yet)
RE: Industry Order
AvG: I don't know about AE, but in WITP, R&D factories DO NOT consume HI or Engines. I am 99% sure that is also true in AE.
RE: Industry Order
Bugs and issues should be posted in the appropriate thread on the main forum, not in here.
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown
RE: Industry Order
Q-Ball: Thanks for your answer. Probably you are right. Strange however to have R&D, which is in reality extremely expensive, for free.
Mynok: What do you mean exactly? Is this War Room not the place to discuss like I do?
What would be the right place?
AvG
Mynok: What do you mean exactly? Is this War Room not the place to discuss like I do?
What would be the right place?
AvG
RE: Industry Order
ORIGINAL: AvG
Q-Ball: Thanks for your answer. Probably you are right. Strange however to have R&D, which is in reality extremely expensive, for free.
Mynok: What do you mean exactly? Is this War Room not the place to discuss like I do?
What would be the right place?
AvG
What Xargun was suggesting, which I have never tested is that to produce an R&D point, HI is expended. I never thought this was true either so I'm with QBall. But I'll test this anyway. Oh and it isn't free, if costs loads of supplies anyway, and only begin when all those factories at one location and built.
--Damian--
RE: Industry Order
ORIGINAL: AvG
Mynok: What do you mean exactly? Is this War Room not the place to discuss like I do?
What would be the right place?
You asked if the devs looked in here. I answered no, they don't. They look in the appropriate stickied thread on the main forum. So if you are looking for an answer from a dev, this isn't the right forum.
Otherwise, carry on.
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown
RE: Industry Order
[[/quote]
You asked if the devs looked in here. I answered no, they don't. They look in the appropriate stickied thread on the main forum. So if you are looking for an answer from a dev, this isn't the right forum.
Otherwise, carry on.
[/quote]
Could you be a bit more specific? Do you mean Tech Support? (Normally that is for problems with installing etc)
AvG
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RE: Industry Order
ORIGINAL: AvG
You asked if the devs looked in here. I answered no, they don't. They look in the appropriate stickied thread on the main forum. So if you are looking for an answer from a dev, this isn't the right forum.
Otherwise, carry on.
Could you be a bit more specific? Do you mean Tech Support? (Normally that is for problems with installing etc)
AvG
AvG, in the main AE forum, one of the sticky threads is titled "AE Map, Base, Economic Issues." That is the thread where the developers for those areas regularly monitor for questions like yours. Here's a link: tm.asp?m=1639011
Mike
"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett
"They need more rum punch" - Me
Artwork by The Amazing Dixie
"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett
"They need more rum punch" - Me
Artwork by The Amazing Dixie
RE: Industry Order
At last a decent understandable answer. Thanks a lot Mike.
Will you believe me when I say that, on the page that now for me appears to be the main forum, untill now I had NOT seen all those sticky items you get when scrolling. After half a century computing I should have seen that myself.
Thanks again.
AvG
Will you believe me when I say that, on the page that now for me appears to be the main forum, untill now I had NOT seen all those sticky items you get when scrolling. After half a century computing I should have seen that myself.
Thanks again.
AvG
RE: Industry Order
I'll have to confess I find that pretty astonishing. [:D]
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown