New built units

[bo]

I am trying to learn this game that I play almost every day, but when I first buy any game I do a lot of tryouts before I actually get deep into a game such as testing Zoc's, invasions fleet manuvers etc. What I dont understand is how a unit which has just been created can be put next to or into any city anywhere which you have conquered, it would make more sense to me if it could only be built in Germany if you are a German player. and on the next turn of Germany it could be moved in a strategic move. Also is there any kind of a filter that would delay the building of a unit such as armored 6 months, infantry division 1 month etc. If it has been discussed before my apology but I see these things as my play progresses through each turn.

Bo

[Bleck]

What I dont understand is how a unit which has just been created can be put next to or into any city anywhere which you have conquered, it would make more sense to me if it could only be built in Germany if you are a German player.

I remember it was discussed before... Let's wait for doomtrader and/or Anraz to answer this one, because I'm only a programmer, not designer

Also is there any kind of a filter that would delay the building of a unit such as armored 6 months, infantry division 1 month etc. If it has been discussed before my apology but I see these things as my play progresses through each turn.

AFAIK there is no such thing for land/air units.

[cpdeyoung]

This issue has been discussed in multiple fora, and there are two schools of thought. One holds that the spending of PP for any units represents an abstraction of all the staff work which goes into building a force mix, and that the actual production and deployment represent the fruits of this process. The second school lusts after a SPI production spiral starting at the cadre level, with more "complex" units spending longer times in the spiral.

Until the developers get the second for me, I can live with the first. The issue seems most annoying to members of the second school with regard to naval units.

Chuck

[Anraz]

What I dont understand is how a unit which has just been created can be put next to or into any city anywhere which you have conquered, it would make more sense to me if it could only be built in Germany if you are a German player.

There is simple explanation connected with turn length, but more important is that we can implement such feature, but ATM ONLY for human player, so I`d like to hear as many ToW players` opinions as it is possible.

[willgamer]

ORIGINAL: Anraz

What I dont understand is how a unit which has just been created can be put next to or into any city anywhere which you have conquered, it would make more sense to me if it could only be built in Germany if you are a German player.

There is simple explanation connected with turn length, but more important is that we can implement such feature, but ATM ONLY for human player, so I`d like to hear as many ToW players` opinions as it is possible.

OK, my official ToW players' opinion (OTOWPO, from now on) is:

I prefer the current game building options with one exception.

The exception is that I would like to see all naval builds handled by events. These events could include choices on the first turn like "What industrial policy was pursued in the years leading up to war: 1. Air production, 2. Armor production, 3. Submarine production, etc...

Whatever you do, please avoid the temptation, in the name of realism, to change the nature of this wonderful GAME into a simulation (curse of the CIV series, IMHO).

The scale, especially timescale, is a right answer to avoiding needless micromanagement.
[8D]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: willgamer

ORIGINAL: Anraz

What I dont understand is how a unit which has just been created can be put next to or into any city anywhere which you have conquered, it would make more sense to me if it could only be built in Germany if you are a German player.

There is simple explanation connected with turn length, but more important is that we can implement such feature, but ATM ONLY for human player, so I`d like to hear as many ToW players` opinions as it is possible.

OK, my official ToW players' opinion (OTOWPO, from now on) is:

I prefer the current game building options with one exception.

The exception is that I would like to see all naval builds handled by events. These events could include choices on the first turn like "What industrial policy was pursued in the years leading up to war: 1. Air production, 2. Armor production, 3. Submarine production, etc...

Whatever you do, please avoid the temptation, in the name of realism, to change the nature of this wonderful GAME into a simulation (curse of the CIV series, IMHO).

The scale, especially timescale, is a right answer to avoiding needless micromanagement.
[8D]
[/quote

Thank you Will just wanted to ge the feelings of the players I try to use common sense when I post, and truly I dont see any Micromanagement in production delay for units or at least install an option that allows you to make your own selection such as delay or no delay button that tells you can do it if you wish to or not.

Bo

[Bleck]

[...] at least install an option that allows you to make your own selection such as delay or no delay button that tells you can do it if you wish to or not.

Amount of delay turns for land/air units (if we decide to implement them) would be in consts.csv so anyone can change it as he prefers.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

This issue has been discussed in multiple fora, and there are two schools of thought. One holds that the spending of PP for any units represents an abstraction of all the staff work which goes into building a force mix, and that the actual production and deployment represent the fruits of this process. The second school lusts after a SPI production spiral starting at the cadre level, with more "complex" units spending longer times in the spiral.

Until the developers get the second for me, I can live with the first. The issue seems most annoying to members of the second school with regard to naval units.

Chuck

Chuck I think you are right about abstraction of all staff work etc., but what you are saying that from the time of starting a complete armored division from scratch, training
them, outfitting them, and on and on, takes one week, if we are trying to keep the game simple then ok I am all for simplicity as I need all the help I can get without getting bogged down by logistics, even though this is a better game than SC, SC gave you that option, one of the complaints by some players of war games is the pushing of units across a map with no thought or reason if you have the power on your side, this would make one think what do I need down the road airpower, tanks or a combination of both instead of oh boy the enemy is 25kms from my doorstep of one of my cities I better build in one week 32 infantry divisions boy that will slow them down, not being cynical to you or anyone else but that is exactly whats happening. Did the players of SC opt for the unit delays, some did probably most did not because instant gratification is what drives us all, but it sure as hell made you think about unit construction with what is needed most and when with it on. Now maybe im digging in Pandora's box in bringing this up and maybe it can't be done, but I would like to hear from a programmer that they can't do it or that it would change the nature of the game or lets keep it simple stupid [meaning me]

Bo

[Uxbridge]

Fully side with Bo on this one. If you don't want the micromanagement of clicking units to the front, that's fine by me. We can have them deploy at the front. The problem lays with the instant order/production/deployment. Much of the flair of strategy games lays in thinking ahead. As it is now, it's a little to easy to buy oneself out of operational trouble.
 
My OTOWPO would thus be: Keep frontline deployment, but add production delay. [;)]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

Fully side with Bo on this one. If you don't want the micromanagement of clicking units to the front, that's fine by me. We can have them deploy at the front. The problem lays with the instant order/production/deployment. Much of the flair of strategy games lays in thinking ahead. As it is now, it's a little to easy to buy oneself out of operational trouble.

My OTOWPO would thus be: Keep frontline deployment, but add production delay. [;)]

Thank you Uxbridge I must be improving in my posts to have a very knowledgeable forum participator agreeing with me [:)] no really thank you but I would like to see the productional delay optional not rigid and you might have meant it that way.

Bo

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

Fully side with Bo on this one. If you don't want the micromanagement of clicking units to the front, that's fine by me. We can have them deploy at the front. The problem lays with the instant order/production/deployment. Much of the flair of strategy games lays in thinking ahead. As it is now, it's a little to easy to buy oneself out of operational trouble.

My OTOWPO would thus be: Keep frontline deployment, but add production delay. [;)]

As Gary points out, an SPI production spiral was suggested about a week after RtV was published (modest cough.) It was the opinion of the designers that it couldn't be implemented without a prohibitive amount of programming time.

Since then, I have grown to admire the ability of my Chief of Staff and Training/Logistics Section Chief to know (usually a year in advance of me knowing it) when we will need an armored division or a battle group or an air wing. They have never failed to have just exactly what I needed within a week of me asking for it. I just wish that my Reseach Directorate was as efficient.

To paraphrase a statement that I heard a little while ago -- if you want to button their tunics, I suggest you play War in the East.

[H. Hoth]

I like to keep it "real" when I play this game.  Do some reading and you will find out some fun facts.  The Germans could get a Division up and going in about three months, a panzer division in about 8 months. Three months for a u-boat, up to a year for DD and CL, two years plus for captial ships and the whole war to get just one CVL 3/4 the way done.  I have played one full game with 1.60, with my house rules. I defeated the Americans and British in France, but the Russians drove me back to Poland in 1944....try playing with the hard option on wow what a game.

[gwgardner]

What are your house rules?

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: H. Hoth

I like to keep it "real" when I play this game.  Do some reading and you will find out some fun facts.  The Germans could get a Division up and going in about three months, a panzer division in about 8 months. Three months for a u-boat, up to a year for DD and CL, two years plus for captial ships and the whole war to get just one CVL 3/4 the way done.  I have played one full game with 1.60, with my house rules. I defeated the Americans and British in France, but the Russians drove me back to Poland in 1944....try playing with the hard option on wow what a game.

I must admit to finding it somewhat irritating to be told "Do some reading" by someone who's been playing the game for a massive two whole weeks. I'd be thrilled to compare my reading list with yours, any time, any where.
In the interim, if you're really interested in my bona fides, I suggest you consult my recent posts lists on my profile. This might be a useful procedure to follow in the future before throwing around snide remarks.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

ORIGINAL: H. Hoth

I like to keep it "real" when I play this game.  Do some reading and you will find out some fun facts.  The Germans could get a Division up and going in about three months, a panzer division in about 8 months. Three months for a u-boat, up to a year for DD and CL, two years plus for captial ships and the whole war to get just one CVL 3/4 the way done.  I have played one full game with 1.60, with my house rules. I defeated the Americans and British in France, but the Russians drove me back to Poland in 1944....try playing with the hard option on wow what a game.

I must admit to finding it somewhat irritating to be told "Do some reading" by someone who's been playing the game for a massive two whole weeks. I'd be thrilled to compare my reading list with yours, any time, any where.
In the interim, if you're really interested in my bona fides, I suggest you consult my recent posts lists on my profile. This might be a useful procedure to follow in the future before throwing around snide remarks.

Michael you are very clever and funny [ good fellows] I do hope I dont get any flak for starting this post as I have been chastised enough for my indiscretions [:D] If the programmers think it is too much trouble to put in production delay who am I to argue with that, also I would like to know who your chief of staff is so I could borrow him [&o] because my chief of staff has been [>:]at his desk and I guess that is the reason why I dont win much [&:]. Also a fourth scoundrel could be Acorn.

Bo

[Uxbridge]

ORIGINAL: Bleck

[...] at least install an option that allows you to make your own selection such as delay or no delay button that tells you can do it if you wish to or not.

Amount of delay turns for land/air units (if we decide to implement them) would be in consts.csv so anyone can change it as he prefers.

If it is possible to implement delay without too much work for you, boys, why not put it in as and extra in the const.csv. It could be inactivated as default. The casual player, who will only play against the AI and who are not one of the die hards here, will never notice it's existence. But we could use it to our own liking. A delay would definately add much to the PBEM-games.

[H. Hoth]

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

ORIGINAL: H. Hoth

I like to keep it "real" when I play this game.  Do some reading and you will find out some fun facts.  The Germans could get a Division up and going in about three months, a panzer division in about 8 months. Three months for a u-boat, up to a year for DD and CL, two years plus for captial ships and the whole war to get just one CVL 3/4 the way done.  I have played one full game with 1.60, with my house rules. I defeated the Americans and British in France, but the Russians drove me back to Poland in 1944....try playing with the hard option on wow what a game.
[/qu, ote]
I must admit to finding it somewhat irritating to be told "Do some reading" by someone who's been playing the game for a massive two whole weeks. I'd be thrilled to compare my reading list with yours, any time, any where.
In the interim, if you're really interested in my bona fides, I suggest you consult my recent posts lists on my profile. This might be a useful procedure to follow in the future before throwing around snide remarks.

I have read your posts since 2006, and your views seem feckless to me. I have been reading History books since the age of Ten. You seem like an arrogant ass to me. You feel the need to insult people to feel better about yourself. I have read just as many books as you sir, if I do irritate you, you could have responded in a better way, shame on you sir.