Re-examine the stacking rules

[MrRoadrunner]

LOL! You guys are zipping along on posts? [8|]
 

"Direct Fire Target Density Value – If the total Strength Points in the target hex exceeds 12, 12 is then subtracted from that number to arrive at an Excess Density Modifier. This value is then multiplied by 8% and by the SP of the firing unit (fractions rounded up), resulting in a density bonus. This density bonus is added to the nominal SP of the firing unit."
Page 67 of the current manual.
 
Sorry I am late on answering. [:'(]
 
RR 

[Jason Petho]

Instead of copying the text from the Manual, I really think we should point out the answers in the right direction and let the user read the manual and surrounding elements for themselves.

Section, Page Number and which manual you are referring to should be sufficient.

Jason Petho

[countblue]

I think that stacking rules are quite ok as they are.
Overstacking is possible but penalized in more than one way.
Look:
In game terms you may park 36 tanks (6 platoons each 6 tanks) onto a 250x250m square. This gives you 1736 square meters space which is ~40x40m for each tank that should be ok for parking and maintenance. [:)] Think of it as a solution to driving park management problems in deploy areas but not for fighting areas. In a fighting area you will of course have a max of 2-3 platoons in one hex which gives them enough room (twice the parking space) ~80x80m to maneuver and fight.

CB

[osiris_slith]

HI CB
 
Sorry but will have to disgree. German tactical manuals were clear. 100m spacing between tanks when moving across open areas and 100m between tanks when defending. (Small Panzer Tactics, SS Armor on the Eastern Front-1943-1944). Spacing between SPWS was apparently even more!!!!
 
Even the western allies followed this principal. Operation goodwood was led by 800 men at the tip of the spear... as one British General put it you dont put everything in the shop window...less is better..(Steel Inferno)
 
There is an excellent debrief article by US Army Intelligence where 2 German generals were interviewed. general Balck and Mellenthin and they were very clear that smaller forces are better (Generals Balck and Mellenthin on tactics, Implications for NATO Military Doctrine..you can find it on the web in PDF format)
 
Since the stacking rule cannot be eliminated due to scenarios already designed, the penalty for stacking should be made extremely severe than what it is now
 
Rene
 
 
 
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[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: osiris

100m spacing between tanks when moving across open areas and 100m between tanks when defending. 

What was the spacing in confined areas?

Jason Petho

[osiris_slith]

Hi
 
Im not sure but will check for you. I do know that tanks were to keep well clear of built up areas like villages unless the infantry had cleared it out first. Even bypassing villages was considered to be a dangerous move without the infantry clearing/securing it first because apparently a 45mm Russian AT can knock out a Panther at 500m with a flanking shot. I will check the Small panzer tactics manual when I get home and provide more info.
 
Rene

[osiris_slith]

Hi Jason
 
From the U.S. War Department Technical Manual, TM-E 30-451: Handbook on German Military Forces
 

• When a tank company attacks with infantry, there are normally two platoons on the line, one platoon back, and the fourth platoon in reserve. The interval between tanks is usually 100 to 120 yards. The tank's machine guns usually engage infantry targets at about 1,000 yards range and under, while the tank guns engage targets at 2,000 to 2,500 yards.
• The coordination between tanks and Panzer Grenadiers moving into combat on armored half-tracks is similar to the technique employed in a purely armored formation, since the armored half-tracks are not only troop-carrying vehicles but also combat vehicles. When the terrain is favorable for tank warfare, the Panzer Grenadiers in their armored half-tracks follow immediately with the second wave, after the first tank wave has overrun the opponent's position. A deep and narrow formation is employed. After the penetration, the main mission of the Panzer Grenadiers is to overcome the enemy positions which survived the first wave.

I think the answer to your question might that in unfavorable/confined terrain either one of two things happen. The tanks dont go or the more likely the infantry goes first
 
Rene

[osiris_slith]

Hi Jason
 
Based on Small Panzer tactics handbook this is what I found regarding confined terrain. The information was under recon.
 
A: A advancing unit can temporarily break the rules of dispertion if the terrain provides cover. The emphasis was that Panzer units advance in cover as much as possible.
 
B: In the case of built up areas such as villages it gets a little complicated. Essentially they had 3 options
1: The unit would stop and observe.
2: The unit could start taking pot shots at the village to see if anybody shot back
3: If nothing happens than the unit would send, preferably the weakest element in the unit forward to see if they get shot at and if they did they would run away while all other elements provide covering fire. Then they go back to observing until heavier units can close up and clear the area out.
 
Rene