Protecting Wake, FINALLY

[Remenents]

After over 13 games as Allies, playing a few months and restarting over and over, I FINALLY managed to protect Wake and get supplies to it AND sink numerous Japanese ships, including 2 BBs and 2 CAs. Here is how it went down:

7 Dec. 1941: Instead of sending Enterprise and Lexington back to Pearl, I sent them charging at Wake Island to try to defend it from the inevitable Japanese TFs they would soon be assaulting it. For the first 2 or 3 turns, nothing happened. Then, suddenly, the Japanese decided to show up with 2 transport TFs and 2 surface TFs. One of those surface TFs was stacked with 2 BBs and at least 2 CAs that I saw. The other had 4 CLs and some DDs. After many turns of sitting there sending a few attacks out here and there, the Saratoga finally arrived and was able to add to the destruction. The Japanese took heavy losses, 5 transports, 4 CLs, 6 DDs. On the next turn, the Japanese rushed in to attack my CVs, but, playing it safe, I had 1 surface TF following each CV TF, 2 BBs, 1 CA, 2 CLs, and between 5-8 DDs each. The Japanese were in for a surprise when they realized that instead of a CV TF, it was a BB TF. We exchanged many salvos, which 16 landed on one of my BBs and 5 on another. The Japanese took 17 hits on one BB and 7 on another. When the smoked cleared, I was pleasantly surprised to find out the 16 shell hits I took only did 12 system damage! That same turn, the Enterprise, Lexington, and Saratoga did some devestating damage to the Japanese TFs. Both BBs took at least 8 more bombs and 2-4 torps, while the 2 CAs took 2 and 3 torps and 1 bomb each. At the end of the battle phase, I looked to see if I sunk them. Amazingly, I added 2 CA and 2 BB to my already mounting total of Japanese surface vessels I am sending to the bottom. Those BBs were unbelievely hard to sink. I added up the total, and Fuso took 18 bombs, 17 shells, 6 torpedoes. Ise took 21 bombs, 3 torpedoes, and 7 shells hits. Those were some amazingly hard ships to send to the bottom and I dread anymore encounters with Japanese BBs for a while yet.

It has been 4 turns now since the destruction and payback from Pearl Harbor, and not 1 single Japanese ship has tried to show his face near Wake. I have been steadily supplying it with troops and air units and fuel and supplies. It turns out that this is how Wake apparently must be defended in order to win there. Either way, even if Wake HAD fallen, the price the Japanese paid for it would have been extremely high compared to my 12 System damage and a grand total of 24 planes shot down.

Once the Yorktown, Hornet, and Wasp arrive, I was thinking of sending a landing party to Marcus with 2 or 3 CVs for cover while I send the other 3 or 4 CVs south to PM area. Not sure how this will work. Anyone have any insight on what has worked for you playing as the Allies around this time frame?

[Chickenboy]

The Japanese were in for a surprise when they realized that instead of a CV TF, it was a BB TF.

Which 4 BBs (2 TFs with 2 BBs each) did you have available for this activity? What was your damage at Pearl? How long did KB stick around there-did you get your BBs for this action out of there?

Also, doesn't Saratoga start the war on the West Coast of the US? What was the date of this Wake invasion that she was able to make it out there?

Against the AI, I was able to intercept the Wake force with 2 x CVs, putting a hurting on 'em. Then I had to scoot-woe unto the allied player that tangles with overwhelming KB forces that early in the game. Eventually Wake fell to the reinvasion-nobody could help with that.

[Q-Ball]

It's pretty easy for the Allied player to mess with the Wake Invasion Fleet, against the AI. Against a human, two problems with this.

First, the Wake Invasion won't be there; a smart Japanese player will abort the initial invasion, and come back a week later with enough force.

Second, by the time that happens, KB will likely be gone from Pearl, and in pretty good position to sweep for you after that hit. You better withdraw straight NNE toward Alaska, because if I am Japan, I would actually split KB in two to sweep for the CVs; even 3 IJN CVs vs. those 2 USN CVs should result in a defeat for the USN.

A more tempting target actually should be that big Replenishment TF. Sinking all those AOs would really hurt.

[Remenents]

Yes, Sara start on the Coast. When I said finally arrived, I ment got from the West Coast, to pearl for more ships for her TF, then to Wake.

I used Maryland, Tennessee, California, and Nevada. Pearl wasnt too bad for me. No BBs sunk, just Arizona, West Virginia, Pensylvania, and California took moderate to severe damage.

KB did not stick around long. 2 turns of attacks and she was gone. (I chased her with some TFs, CAs, CLs, subs mostly.)

And yes, you are right, KB for any Allied player is invincible at the start of the war. I havent saw her since she took off away from Pearl and made 1 air attack on Midway as she ran by, and it also appeared she dispatched 2 DDs to shell Midway for 1 turn, too.

[sprior]

A human player would love for you to put up a fight for Wake. The allies will lose, they just have to decide how much.

[Remenents]

Oh, I know they would. But I am not against a Human opponent. [;)]

[Remenents]

Well, the Japanese KB just showed up. For some reason, it only attacked Wake one time and on the next turn, never got to launch a plane due to weather. I had Enterprise and Saratoga (2 different TFs) standing guard at Wake still. I launched 3 waves at it and did some serious damage to Shokaku and Soryu. My only Surface TF remaining (others returned to Pearl for resupply) attacked, the Maryland took 32 shell hits and 2 Torps a DD took 3 shell hits. I managed to put 10 shells into Shokaku, 2 into Zuikaku, and 5 into Soryu. Its looked like a torpedo run failed to cause any damage. After the battle, the Maryland was put into an escort fleet and sent to Pearl for some major repairs (system 56, flood 59, engine 42). Overall, I came out on top. The KB moved away in the following turn and I managed to put a 3 bombs into Zuikaku and 1 torp into Shokaku and Soryu. Akagi and Kaga were lucky... for now.

**Editted for typo**

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: sprior

A human player would love for you to put up a fight for Wake. The allies will lose, they just have to decide how much.

I think a human player would love for you to put up a fight *at less than even odds* for Wake. The mere presence of any IJN actors does not presuppose miraculous victory against all comers. I wouldn't take those odds. Again, KB cannot be everywhere all at once, so their presence elsewhere may make Wake (or any other island for that matter) a very different defensible picture.

Remenents: In your case, they're (KB) there (at Wake), so it's a very different qualitative picture. You were fortunate to have been able to damage so many of the CVs with comparatively light damage to your outnumbered forces. But for the weather's intercession, things would likely have gone badly for you.

[Remenents]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I think a human player would love for you to put up a fight *at less than even odds* for Wake. The mere presence of any IJN actors does not presuppose miraculous victory against all comers. I wouldn't take those odds. Again, KB cannot be everywhere all at once, so their presence elsewhere may make Wake (or any other island for that matter) a very different defensible picture.

Remenents: In your case, they're (KB) there (at Wake), so it's a very different qualitative picture. You were fortunate to have been able to damage so many of the CVs with comparatively light damage to your outnumbered forces. But for the weather's intercession, things would likely have gone badly for you.
[/quote]

Oh, I agree 100% about a Human player. The AI is not able to think like a real human. Against a Human, I would never had tried to do anything like this until very late 42 or early 43. Anything before this (without overwhelming odds in the Allied players favor) would more than likely result in a disaster. The only reason I stood my ground against KB for a second turn (the first turn, the surprised me, I didnt know they were there until I was getting air attacked) is because I wanted to see what would happen. When they moved on the 2nd turn, they moved right into a hex with bad weather and I got lucky... very lucky.

[wg335910]

So, It is possible to hold Wake Island with this simulation? I'm very new to this game. I've written OPORDs where Wake is held; then Marcus, the Bonins, and finally the Ryukus are taken, thereby cutting Japan's throat. I believe it is the fastest way to win. But that's with the old Pacific War software. If you have any tips on how I can get up speed, I would appreciate it. Thanks

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: wg335910

So, It is possible to hold Wake Island with this simulation? I'm very new to this game. I've written OPORDs where Wake is held; then Marcus, the Bonins, and finally the Ryukus are taken, thereby cutting Japan's throat. I believe it is the fastest way to win. But that's with the old Pacific War software. If you have any tips on how I can get up speed, I would appreciate it. Thanks

My first question is in what time frame would this series of operations begin ? Playing as Allies in a historical game, I do not see how it would be possible against a human, or even the AI ( less sure about the latter yet ) in 1942. If the KB is intact, thenI just do not think I could scrape together the units to accomplish all of the invasions required, and keep everything supplied, while also taking proper care of all other theatres.

But who knows [:)]

[Remenents]

If I knew how to take a screenshot I would post the screenshots of all the ships I have sunk around Wake since the begining of the war. It is now January 42 and I still hold Wake, though Japanese TFs keep appearing to take it back, but it is well supplied. The largest ship I have lost so far is a DD. Japanese has lost 1 CV, 2 BBs, 2 CAs (I think it was 2), 4 CLs, and probably aroun 10 DDs JUST around Wake from the Air TFs and Surface TFs. Bataan and Manila are still holding strong and so is Singapore. Lots of supplies and troops in those bases. Rangoon has nearly as many troops as Manila does and more air units. Sarobaja (however you spell it, never can remember) has all the units in Java, air and land, stationed there. PM has a ton of air units and quite a few ground units and support units. I am air lifting many others from Townsville to PM and using transports from SF and Pearl to keep it supplied with air and land units as well as supplies and fuel. The Repulse and Prince of Wales, along with some of the ships from ABDA area have been wreaking havoc along the PM area since the Japanese seem to not be wanting to put air units there. The only problem I have right now (and it is in the process of being fixed) is that I have used up SO much supplies and fuel from Pearl, that it is nearly drained and I am in the process of bringing in as much as I can using probably 5-8 transport TFs and 2-4 tanker TFs from the West Coast (which is being supplied from convoys from the East Coast). It just doesnt seem to be bringing in supplies and fuel as fast as I am using them to keep Wake and PM area supplied. Other than that, the game is progressing perfectly in my favor.

stuman:

You are right, you wouldnt be able to scrape together what is need for conquest as the allies, that is why I am playing defensive. Just trying to hit them where I can and as hard as I can and if I see they are coming in force, I would withdraw. There is no way the Allies can stand toe to toe with the Japanese in the begining, my string of victories has been with a lot of luck (except for around PM where the Japanese are just stupid to not use air units). The Wake defense is stretching my resources EXTREMELY thin, and honestly, I am not sure if I can hold it too much longer unless I can manage to supply Pearl and fast. Otherwise I will just have to abandon it and take the victories I did gain from it and use them later (the Japanese are now down 1 CV and 2 BB).

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: Remenents
...from the West Coast (which is being supplied from convoys from the East Coast)....

[X(][:D][:-]

Don´t do that, seriously, west coast supplies alone very well via transcotinental rail, take all the fuel you need from LA and supplies from SF and LA and dont waste merchants

[Remenents]

ORIGINAL: vlcz

ORIGINAL: Remenents
...from the West Coast (which is being supplied from convoys from the East Coast)....

[X(][:D][:-]

Don´t do that, seriously, west coast supplies alone very well via transcotinental rail, take all the fuel you need from LA and supplies from SF and LA and dont waste merchants

Well, the supplies are not arriving fast enough to SF and LA. I need more so I am going to have to transport some until after this Wake thing is over with. I need to keep Wake since I have already invested so much resources into it. If I can not get enough supplies to Pearl to keep my 4 CVs in the fight, then I am going to lose Wake and all the supplies that I have already burned up to keep it so far will be all wasted.

[Remenents]

Pearl Harbor has been supplied. CV TFs are back in the fight, and good thing. Right after they arrived on scene back at Wake, the Japanese tried to hit me again. They have been landing troops off and on, and right now have some on Wake. They sent a BB TF (Hiei and Yamashiro - I think it was that BB) to bombard it. While my 4 CV TFs moved in, all following eachother in the same hex, a Japanese CV TF appeared right behind the BB TF. I didnt realize it was a CV TF until it had sent an air strike at me. During the following air strike, they struck the Yorktown pretty good. 32 system, 28 float, 22 engine damage and hitting the Salt Lake City for 4 system, 52 float, 16 engine damage. While the attack on my TF was happening, the strike craft from the 4 CVs showed up over the CV TF. Driving home the point that the US will not be bullied, the aircraft sunk the carriers Zuikaku and Kaga. Another victory for the Allies at Wake. The total now is 3 CVs (Zuikaku, Shokaku, Kaga), 2 BBs (Fuso and Ise), 2 CAs (Chikuma and Chokai), 5 CL, and 13 DDs, and at least 25 Transports, Tankers, Oilers, and smaller escort vessels. The Allies have lost 2 DDs, 1 xAK, and 1 AO and 1 Carrier and Heavy Cruiser out of commission for a while. Tables are slowly turning. So long as Japan keeps sending TFs like this toward Wake, the war wont last long once I start my offensive.

NOTE: This is just a game vs the AI. I know a Human player would never act like this. I just keep updating this to show what the AI is actually doing over and over again while I dont do much besides sit there and sink whatever is sends after me. Its just a way to show that the AI is nothing like a Human, even with Historical on.

[Chickenboy]

Appreciate the updates, keep 'em coming.

It's appearing as though the IJ AI subroutines support repeated headlong and ill-advised attacks. Unfortunately, as in WiTP, this foreknowledge can be used to "break" the AI, as you are seemingly doing here and as I am doing in my defense of Java.

Too bad. I understand that it is impossible to mimic a human's rational thought process, but the gambit-based AI here is showing its very distinct limitations. At some point, my game will be unplayable. Will yours?

[Salamandra]

ORIGINAL: Remenents

... I had Enterprise and Saratoga (2 different TFs) ...

you mean lexington right?

[Remenents]

No, Enterprise, Saratoga, Yorktown, and Lexington are the 4 CVs I have right now.