Where is the Japanese Submarine Doctrine toggle switch?

[88l71]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: dereck
And also to be blunt about it I frankly get peeved with your crappy attitude and the attitude of those like you that think PBEM is the ONLY way to play this game.

I paid good money for this game and if I - and obviously others - like to play solo we should have that ability without having to get screwed in all these patches because of people like you who play PBEM and do things that none of the AI players would do. I've been dealing with this attitude since I bought the first WITP game and it's only got worse.

If this game wasn't intended to also be played solo the AI option wouldn't be there but it is so you PBEMers just have to deal with it.

Wah wah wah. No one's stopping you. Have at it. It's not that PBEM is the only way to play, but it is the BEST way to play. What makes me absolutely laugh out loud is the arrogance of you AI-onlies who think you know what is the best way to play. Play both. If you go back to AI, fine. But you won't. Let me know if I've missed some rule that requires me to give a crap about AI play.

PBEM doesn't mean just the GC game either.

Addendum: To be perfectly correct, I think the very best way to play is head-to-head hotseat, but that is extremely difficult to arrange. PBEM is the best combination of convenience and competition.

How is putting in a toggle for sub ops for those of us who play AI only taking anything away from PBEM'ers like yourself who will run your subs manually anyway?

I wouldn't go for PBEM because, quite frankly, I do a turn whenever I feel like it, if that means 3 a day or 1 a month, and it wouldn't be fair to ask my opponent to put up with an erratic schedule, not to mention committing to possibly a several-years (real time) long game. I happen to enjoy other games plus real life stuff and AE is a involving, micromanagement-heavy, detail-oriented game where it's not like I can just whip out a turn without setting aside a substantial block of time for it. Sorry, but I'm not one of those people who has been playing since vanilla WitP came out and can do allied turn 1 in his sleep. My computer opponent doesn't care about a schedule or anything else.

Sorry for being long winded but just trying to say, for me, PBEM isn't the "best" way to play by any means...but I surely don't have a problem with people who exclusively play PBEM, and the issues with Japanese AI subs have *nothing to do with changing PBEM play.*

And you may not care about AI play but it's obvious Matrix has put in a lot of effort to improve the AI from vanilla, for which I am very appreciative.

[Gary D]

... but it's obvious Matrix has put in a lot of effort to improve the AI from vanilla, for which I am very appreciative.

I second this sentiment. Like some of you folks I am an AI player. Same with Pacwar and Witp. Usually the way it worked out I spent a few years playing the "historical AI" and when it became stale moved on to the mods that came along tossing in a lot of twists to history. With AE I think it is a bit reversed. It seems Andys great AI is giving us a little bit of the "PBEM style" non historical feel first and sooner or latter somebody will challenge Andy at script mastery and try to stick to a more "historical" time line. I like it.

Sooner or latter, as I played along in my "historical AI" mode I would read some of the great AARs our PBEM brothers post, and wish the AI could do some of the things I was reading about. I would end up making my own little house rules like garrisoning India/Oz against an attack that we all knew would never happen with the old AI. Now you just do not know and that is a very nice addition from my point of view. Next year or the year after when I have seen and enjoyed Andys new bag of tricks it will be time to pick up a mod and see the adventure from somebody elses perspective, perhaps with an AI that does not have "victory disease" from day one!

My first go at the GC the IJN subs ate my lunch. So now I convoy and have lost only a single AK up to March. After the initial rush to save the merchies, convoying made it easier to keep track of things anyhow. One or two escorts of any kind keep the wolves at bay, at least up to a convoy size of 20 vessels or so. More hulls than that and my folks start playing bumper cars with each other and doing as much damage to each other as the subs did, well almost!

All the best to you folks, AI players and PBEMers!

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Wah wah wah. No one's stopping you.

Of course one could throw down the gauntlet and email a PBEM game and see if the challange is accepted. Sorry, that was mean.[:-]

LOL! If I could do more PBEM games justice I would. I promise!

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: 88l71

How is putting in a toggle for sub ops for those of us who play AI only taking anything away from PBEM'ers like yourself who will run your subs manually anyway?

I have no problem with it at, as my prior post indicates. As long as it defaults to OFF and doesn't affect my choice to change the strategic goals of my subs.

For those who are relatively new to this system, and I really have no clue if you are one of them, there has been a long-standing and annoying insistence by some these AI fanboi's that the Japs should be restricted to only historical Jap strategic decisions. I have no problem with putting some logical limitations on them at all. But some of these goofs complain because Jap players don't recreate Midway or horde pilots or decide to throw extra effort into China. As if just because the japs were stupid we have to be.

AE has done a great job of putting more teeth in those logical limitations to what the Jap player can accomplish. I give tremendous credit to the dev team for that. But at least let us correct some of the stupid strategic decisions they made without penalty just because the historical joes didn't do it. For some, that it apparently anathema.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Gary D

My first go at the GC the IJN subs ate my lunch. So now I convoy and have lost only a single AK up to March. After the initial rush to save the merchies, convoying made it easier to keep track of things anyhow. One or two escorts of any kind keep the wolves at bay, at least up to a convoy size of 20 vessels or so. More hulls than that and my folks start playing bumper cars with each other and doing as much damage to each other as the subs did, well almost!

All the best to you folks, AI players and PBEMers!

Exactly. Using convoys will solve the "overpowered IJN subs" problem. Besides, the devs are not going to mod a switch back into the game, especially one that that may not have worked that well to begin with. But let's assume for a moment that they DO put the toggle back. In order to achieve "real world" results, here's what we'd expect to see:

ORIGINAL: dereck
http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/macslog/TheRoleof ... einWo.html

Japanese submarines accounted for about 184 merchant ships with a tonnage of 907,000 tons. In addition they sank 2 Aircraft Carriers, 2 Cruisers, and 10 Destroyers.

So that means with the historical toggle "on", the Allied player should expect to lose 13 merchant ships for every warship sunk. Which kinda sounds like where we are right now.

[LiquidSky]

Anything that removes hindsight from a war game is great. I don't like foreknowledge in a game that uses 'strategy'. Lets say for example that you do get Japanese subs that only shoot at warships. Where would you put your destroyers? Damn right you would. Not a single one on convoys, and every fleet with as many destroyers as you can fit. Historical doctrine for the japs maybe, but you end up with unhistorical Allied play.

Lots of WWII events are like that...it doesnt take a genius to avoid famous strategic blunders. If one side is forced to recreate the blunder, the other side will use it to his advantage. The opposite is true. But since 'free will' is supposed to be a major part of playing a game, you have to err on the side of free will.

Of course, if your excuse for losing is that the 'AI ' or 'insert opponent here' fought a new style of war, while you were fighting yesterdays war, well....join the long line of losers in history.