I was disappointed

[fbs]

I know that everybody involved is really dedicated, and I do appreciate and respect that.

But I'm left with the impression that this game is 99% identical to the old BoB and BTR. Yeah, the graphics have changed, and the menu placement have changed, and there are probably more units around... but everything else looks exactly the same: same scope, same mechanics, same limitations, same targets, same campaigns, same start/end dates.

And somehow on the way the interface became very slow (on a top of line computer) -- but nevermind that, I can live with that. My problem is that there is a lot of deja vu with the old game, and for that I am disappointed. Is the old game such a perfect work that it can't be improved? Wasn't there any room to assign leaders, split units, have a 1942 campaign, add an editor, add some borders to the map (so I don't bomb a French town), add Coastal Command and get them to hunt U-Boats, add some civilian casualties statistics, make the economy more realistic, or some other enhancements from the 500 that players could come with if they were asked?

I'm not impressed with what Matrix Games is doing with this franchise. Will Matrix change the map next year and release as BTR III? Change the icons and font and release once again as BTR IV? I could very well live with the old graphics if the game mechanics were new and improved.

I think that, in summary, I'm disappointed with the lack of ambition of this game. Once again, don't take me wrong with this -- I certainly am most respectful of all involved on this project.

Thanks,
fbs

[sfbaytf]

Unfortunately I'm going to have to agree with FBS. This isn't a big improvement over the original. Mabye I've become spoiled with WitP AE, but I was hoping for a quantum improvement.

Lets face it, once the action starts its still as slow as before and it still looks like rush hour on the LA freeway. I could understand that when I first played it in 1994 and I had a 486/SX but not today when I have a graphics card that has more memory and computing power than my old 486/sx, let alone my main processor that in 1994 could have predicted the upcoming dot-com crash as well as the housing bubble.

To be fair I don't know how much resources was given to this project. I won't beat up on this anymore cause I feel bad for the Hard Sarge who put his life into this and I don't begrudge the fact I spent $50+ on this.

Perhaps in time and after a few updates this will grow on me...please open up the game, throw in a full editor and allow the modders to bring the map up to at least Witp AE standards.

BTW: for those who are having issues on Vista 64, I too also see the spinning circle alongside the pointer after starting up. I was able to get rid it it by "ctrl-esc" and closing the opening menu and "alt-tab" back to the game. The screen was initially black, but by clicking the mouse on the screen was able to get back the game interface.

[Rosseau]

I am a Matrix addict, but for all the reasons you listed I had to say "no" to this one. The designers busted butt and deserve the $50, but the game system is too old to accommodate higher res graphics, etc. Matrix should have invested more in it or dropped the price.

Then there was the awesome Campaign Series compilation, the Close Combat series, and they just released an editor for Empires in Arms. So really can't complain too much!

[LuckyJim1005]

Have to agree - I was a bit vocal about how long this title took to get released and now playing it I do not see any difference from the original.

I appreciate there may be a lot more going on under the hood but the UI is still exactly the same and it still makes that god awful noise everytime I click a button.

As for the movement phase - how hard would have it been to have an option to lose the aircraft sprites and use standard Nato icons. Might make it go faster and it would surely make it easier to see what is going on. As it is I just kick it off and go have a cup of tea (or beer) and then see what happened.

That said I never had the 'Bombing the Reich' bit so am looking foreward to trying that out.

Kudos to Hard Sarge and the team for getting it out after all these years but I am not sure it is worth the purchase if you have the old games and can get them running.

[Terminus]

"fbs" is entitled to his opinion, but as someone who worked on another of this type of project, I'd like to tell him (and the rest of you) exactly how difficult it is to mess with a pre-existing game engine, especially (no offense, Gary) a Gary Grigsby one, which is overflowing with so much code that even GG himself can't figure it out anymore. And that's not a joke, BTW.

On AE, we had a huge development team, and it still took us YEARS to finish a product we were comfortable with releasing, after tearing a big section (the AI) out and completely replacing it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this development team basically two or three guys? I'm impressed that they got this out so quickly.

Also, I wish people would stop complaining about resolution. It is HUGELY difficult to add selectable screen resolution to an old engine like this, believe me. Even brand new engines take plenty of work and time to add this. Play it in a window if you don't like the resolution.

And price? $50 is *cheap* for a game of this type.

Okay, rant over. I haven't bought this one yet, but I will as soon as I get the finances.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: LuckyJim1005
As for the movement phase - how hard would have it been to have an option to lose the aircraft sprites and use standard Nato icons.

Erm, that option has always been in the game. You can turn the sprites off easily; I don't have it yet, but I can see in the screenshots that it's still there.

[sven6345789]

yepp, just take a look on the buttons in screen on the right hand side. It is the 3rd or 4th from above i believe. you will get boxes. I always played with boxes. As about the graphics. This isn't about graphics but about data. I owned the originals and now own this one because it is the best representation of the european air war on a grand strategic scale. I am glad it is out. Thanks to the guys who put their devotion into this product.
Also, several new types of planes entered the game. So it is not exactly a plane copy.

[wernerpruckner]

Waypoints, F/B that works, interchangeable bombs or droptanks, fuel consumption that works more realistically as well as the bomb damage, many bugs ae gone, more new toys to play with (in BTR it is not as easy as it was for the Germans)..........................................................................................................................and many many more things
graphics were/are our least concern, but I hope someone will bring as some nice mods and graphics

[petgod]

Well Im not disappointed. A great game has been made better. Bloody well done Hard sarge, harley and all those that have worked on this this for many years, with out pay!

Great work and really love it.

My only comment would be "Harley make me an editior like btredit". Really loved moving stuff around for different start set ups.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: LuckyJim1005
As for the movement phase - how hard would have it been to have an option to lose the aircraft sprites and use standard Nato icons.

Erm, that option has always been in the game. You can turn the sprites off easily; I don't have it yet, but I can see in the screenshots that it's still there.

I for one found them fine. I just wish they would work here. (they will not show any new formations here until I toggle back to plane sprites and then again to icons... an untenable situation for actually playing with them on)

I do wish I had waited for some patches before buying this. Other than uncontrollably fast mouse-map scrolling, the originals still work better here than the new one (especially so, as the mouse-map scrolling is jumpy as hell here in the new one).

However, all indications are that they will fix it. I'm hoping the fixes will incorporate more machine combinations than their test pool included.

[Creeper]

I fully agree with petgod. I love this game too.
But i wish that harley would implement the hotkey for highlighting airfields with aircraft on it.

Perhaps we need a "wishlist-thread".

[Misty99]

And price? $50 is *cheap* for a game of this type.

I own the original BTR and I dont want to pay 50$ for a big patch. I bought CC COI and CC TLD and I had the feeling, that I play the old games again.

[Nemo121]

Well, I think there are enough changes to justify a purchase personally. My big issue would be the after-sales support.
 
The game won't run at all for me, I've posted my dxdiag and requested information. Almost a day later despite about 100 views there's no sign of anyone official giving any feedback on what to do next.
 
 
I don't mind a game which is an under-the-hood update and doesn't have all the modern bells and whistles. But I do expect that a game will work OR, if it doesn't work, there'll be prompt response to a technical report ( even if just to say --- We're looking into it, we'll get back to you within 48 hrs).

[Erik Rutins]

I'm disappointed at the disappointment, which as far as I can tell is based on a misunderstanding. This is not a "WITP" or "WITP:AE" project. Both of those were effectively new games and massive undertakings. WITP:AE had over two dozen people working on it.

This was always presented as the same as our other "TalonSoft" releases - a project to update the game to make it compatible with newer operating systems and add some improvements along the way, particularly to any significant bug or balance issues that had not been addressed in the original support process. Have a look at the Campaign Series, TOAW III or the Battleground Series. The gameplay and interface in all of these is virtually identical to the original games, but they work well on modern systems and have a number of improvements. Without exception, all these projects were limited by the original engines and all of them had small development teams (this one had two people).

We combined both games into one updated release here, fixed bugs and made a number of improvements. That's what we promised and that's what was delivered, with each game at half the price of the original (as a side note, when we got the rights to them, the old versions with bugs and modern OS incompatibilities were still selling at full price or higher on the secondary market).

Most importantly, these titles will now also receive post-release support.

Regards,

- Erik

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Misty

And price? $50 is *cheap* for a game of this type.

I own the original BTR and I dont want to pay 50$ for a big patch. I bought CC COI and CC TLD and I had the feeling, that I play the old games again.

This is not a patch.

[vonRocko]

I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.

[Misty99]

This is not a patch.

OK, then it´s an update!

[zoul310]

Well, I used to play like mad these 2 games. I switched to Mac years ago (I'm photographer) and have been looking at this forum in silence for years...
I miss it very much. And I'm going to buy a PC again just for this one.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope that you give it a chance again after the first update. The issues with some systems as far as lag and hourglass should be resolved with the first update. The graphics are exactly as billed and as shown in the screenshots. This game is aimed squarely at those who loved the original and wanted to improve them further and keep playing them for years to come. In addition, it is two games in one, both of which originally sold for $50 each and each of which remains the definitive game on its subject.

[jimbo12]

I guess it is a matter of perspective and taste. Having followed the Talonsoft "reno process" from the begining I for one am very thankful to see these classic titles have all returned now. In a war game like this graphics are my least prioity. I have logged more hours playing BoB then any other game I owned and when it stopped working years ago it left a big hole in my gaming enjoyment. For whatever reason the detail planning combined with the helpless or awesome feeling of watching your plans slowly unfold hit it for me. Most games give you a omni-potent seat and game designers have to struggle to add the fog of war. Not so here! While I can't say I have read every post on the this forum I have read most of them and I can attest to a few things.

1. I am just into the game but all of the bugs I knew about are gone now.
2. Unlike with the battleground series the AI seems much improved. My impression might be based on being rusty but I don't remember fighters chasing me back to my air fields or ignoring my fighter sweeps when they should. My low level attacks on radar sites got chewed up by flak " so much for that tactic". Multi level fighter escort seems very realistic as the high escorts are pulled down and become targets themselves. Etc etc ect!
3. The order of battle is finally fixed and realistic. I can't wait until I finally get my FW190's
4. If you read what Matrix promised they have over delivered IMO

I could go on and on but I don't believe you buy this kind of game for graphics or how big of a screen you can fit it on. If you were a fan of the game before I believe you will enjoy this game. Too those of you who are disapointed I really hope you play it several times so you can get past your disapointment with the lack of tech upgades and into the rich detail of the simulation.