Division Integrity

[takacssteve]

Is there any organizational benefit of an entire Division stacked together (other than the Army HQ benefit)?

for instance: The Japanese 2nd Division is comprised of the following units:

ARM 2nd Recon Rgt
ART 2nd FA Rgt
ENG 2nd Engr Rgt
4th Inf Rgt
16th Inf Rgt
24th Inf Rgt

[Barb]

It has something to do with loses and morale/fatigue... Example: If a complete division lose 10% of squads it lowers its morale/raise fatigue by 10%.
When a division in divided state suffer exactly same loses, most of them are related to first unit by ID - say one of the infantry regiment resulting in somethig like 30% of regiments squads/morale/fatigue.

I would say that whole divisions are ideal for attack/combat while divided are best for garrisoning.

I am also playing with the idea of using detached units as garrisons in outlying islands. If the allies kill them, you can still combine and reequip it to be full division again. Bad thing is when the allies will bypass that unit - that way you cannot combine the division again [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Barb


When a division in divided state suffer exactly same loses, most of them are related to first unit by ID - say one of the infantry regiment resulting in somethig like 30% of regiments squads/morale/fatigue.

Wow! Is it still like this in AE? Would love to hear a developer verify because this is very important.

[witpqs]

Bump

[BigJ62]

Broken down units are treated just like individual units. Strategy depends on the enemy and what you are trying to do. If I have 6 regts, I could assault with 4 and put 2 in reserve and rotate as needed. One thing to keep in mind is modified av is calc per unit so if you have mediocre exp and leaders then keeping the units broke down might mitigate some bad die rolls, but I'm not real sure what best way is, it is up to you.

[witpqs]

BigJ62,

Thanks. What I think the real question is has to do with a technical aspect of how the engine executes combat. Do things get spread out, or does the hurt pile up on one unit based on the database Unit ID? A simplified example of why it matters:

Suppose you have a division consisting of 3 Inf regiments. You are going to attack.

Case 1> The regiments are combined into a division.

Case 2> The regiments remain separate.

Suppose the result of combat is that 1.5 regiments worth of squads are destroyed. If the code applies those casualties more or less evenly, then Case 1 and Case 2 are pretty much the same.

Case 1> About 1/2 of the division is destroyed.

Case 2> About 1/2 of each regiment is destroyed.

However, if the code applies the casualties first to one unit based on Unit ID, then one regiment will be destroyed totally!

Case 1> About 1/2 the devision is destroyed.

Case 2> 1st regiment wiped out completely. 2nd regiment about 1/2 destroyed. 3rd regiment hardly damaged at all.


That's why it's important for us to know how it works. It is much easier to work with regiments for shipping them around, etc. But if the game engine makes it necessary to work with divisions for combat purpose - we should know that.

Thanks in advance - can you (or someone else if you don't know) comment on that?

[BigJ62]

The first unit in the stack will normally be the unit that gets the worst of it. The stack of defenders and attackers is randomized, but usually the first units will be the line cbt units. We don't calc the total effect and then spread across all units, it done on a unit by unit basis - For bombardment and fire phase the 1st attacking unit fires at the first defending unit then the next until it runs out of shots. Defenders fire back using similar procedure. Assault phase we add up the modified av and compare, the manual gives an overview of this procedure.

[witpqs]

Thanks. I didn't realize that detail was in the manual (sorry).

So, it seems like having bigger units (to absorb punishment) is a definite advantage.

[takacssteve]

I have learned how the combat sequence and how battle damage is taken. I learned much more than I had asked for. Thank you!

My reason for asking the question was different; if part of the division is in a different location altogether say Truk vs Singapore is there either a penalty for operating separately or a bonus for all operating together?

[BigJ62]

No penalties and no bonuses.

[Barb]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
No penalties and no bonuses.

but:
If part of the division (say XXXth Infantry Regiment) is destroyed you can still reconstitute the division and "missing squads" for the lost unit could be drawn from pool - resulting in full division.

Once you rebuilt the Division, you are only able to divide it into /A/B/C parts.

If part of the divison (19th Division/A) is destroyed, you can no longer reconstitute division.

[BigJ62]

Correct.

ORIGINAL: Barb

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
No penalties and no bonuses.

but:
If part of the division (say XXXth Infantry Regiment) is destroyed you can still reconstitute the division and "missing squads" for the lost unit could be drawn from pool - resulting in full division.

Once you rebuilt the Division, you are only able to divide it into /A/B/C parts.

If part of the divison (19th Division/A) is destroyed, you can no longer reconstitute division.