Just how bad were USN torpedoes?

[sandman2575]

...newb that i am, i've been surprised at just *how awful* early-war USN torpedoes are. Although I haven't kept strict numerical track, it definitely feels like 2 out of every 3 (66% at least?) of my torpedoes fail to detonate when they hit their target. IJN fail rate seems much much lower, like maybe 15%-20%

i'm not about to imply "is this historical?" because i feel pretty certain that *everything* in this game has been carefully modelled and exhaustively researched (...incredibly impressive, really) -- but God is it frustrating!!

[Terminus]

Well, if you've only seen the Mk14 malfunction 2 out of 3 times, then you're lucky...[:D]

[Shark7]

For the first 1.5 years of the war, the standard US submarine attack goes <Submarine> fires 4 21in Mk 14 Torpedo at <ship>...Torpedoes fail to detonate. As best I can tell, 9 of 10 will miss/fail to detonate.

[Terminus]

Aside from the fact that it's 8 out of 10, you're correct.

[joey]

The early torpedoes were so bad that SUBPAC ordered some of the improperly performing functions (depth setting and magnetic exploders ) on torpedoes disabled in order to improve their functioning somewhat. Torpedoes had a few major problems. The depth setting was one of these. The other being the firing pin. Magnetic exploders were another. Washington ordered him to turn them back on; he did not. He refused because to do so would make the torpedoes completely useless.

[witpqs]

IIRC the magnetic exploder was a major problem too and was disabled early on.

[Terminus]

Correct. The Mk 14 had those three big problems, which conspired for 18 months to make it somewhat less than useful.

[JohnDillworth]

The early torpedoes were so bad that SUBPAC ordered some of the improperly performing functions (depth setting and magnetic exploders ) on torpedoes disabled in order to improve their functioning somewhat. Torpedoes had a few major problems. The depth setting was one of these. The other being the firing pin. Magnetic exploders were another. Washington ordered him to turn them back on; he did not. He refused because to do so would make the torpedoes completely useless.

Plus there was complete denial that the problem existed. I believe that the person that finally proved the firing pin didn't work took a sub to some coastline with a cliff and fired a torpedo right into it. I think it failed on the first shot. Then some diver went and retrived the warhead.

[Admiral Scott]

What is the failure rate of the older more reliable Mark 10 torpedo in the game?

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Aside from the fact that it's 8 out of 10, you're correct.

Details, details... [:D]

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

What is the failure rate of the older more reliable Mark 10 torpedo in the game?

15%.

[Chris21wen]

One of my boats 'hit' the Shokaku with three separate salvos, twice in one turn. Note I use the tern 'hit'.

[Admiral Scott]

Some sub commanders removed the magnetic influence detonators and/or changed the running depth on their torpedoes against orders.
They started to get hits, but the changes they made were kept secret from their superiors.

Is this modeled in the game?

[sandman2575]

thanks for the historical context guys -- interesting stuff!

[joey]

The is an story about these torpedoes. I believe it was the Wahoo. The story goes the torpedo shot was a perfect midships firing position. It does not get much better than that. The torpedo was fired and ran hot straight and normal. The sub commander watched the captain of the freighter (the target) as the torpedo approached the freighter through the periscope. The sub commander watched the freighter captains face go from curiosity (at first) to total fear as the torpedo closed in on the freighter. As the torpedo hit, the sub commander heard a "pinkkk" instead of a "boom!". With that, the freighter captain feinted on the freighter's deck.

[sandman2575]

ORIGINAL: joey

With that, the freighter captain feinted on the freighter's deck.

...well, at least it took out the captain
[:D]

[Footslogger]

Didn't john Wayne make a movie describeing the trouble with firing pin in the torpedo itself?

[Jonathan Pollard]

I think the problem with the magnetic influence detonators arose from their testing in northern latitudes, where the earth's magnetic field is different from that in the tropics.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard
I think the problem with the magnetic influence detonators arose from their testing in northern latitudes, where the earth's magnetic field is different from that in the tropics.

Yes. I heard that as well, and think it's totally likely.

Another problem was the torps tended to porpoise, so maybe they ran high, maybe they ran low, maybe they prematured, but when they ran sweet, the mag exploders were gnarly deadly. Unfortunately, running sweet was a big issue. Took a looong time to get the mag head working right, what with all the other crap going on that skewed the analysis.

There was a temp compensation circuit in the detonator that (hindsight) caused the prematures, and a lag in the analog direction gyros (again hindsight) that caused the porpoising. Feedback from the magnetic system, was rudimentary, and not positive. More like neutral, or even negative feedback, so you are lookin at an increasing sinusoidal track. Woof! Like as: like as not. Math sucks, life's a bitch. But you're on point, Jojo.

[Terminus]

To sum everything up for the OP:

Yes, the Mk 14 was that bad.