Why is my Escort/CAP unit flying LRCAP?

[fbs]

Manual page 153 says "CAP ... will fly Combat Air Patrol to protect all friendly units in the fighter unit’s hex from enemy air attack". also "LRCAP ... will fly combat air patrol over all friendly units in a hex other than the one containing the air unit’s base".

Now, turn 1 of the long campaign... No.243 Sqn RAF based on Singapore has mission = Escort, 20% CAP. Yet it (plus the No.288 Sqn RAF) happily flew away to fight the evil Japs trying to sink my poor Force Z:

"
Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 52,82

...

CAP engaged:
No.488 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
..... (3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
..... 3 plane(s) intercepting now.
..... Group patrol altitude is 10000
..... Raid is overhead
No.243 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
..... 1 plane(s) intercepting now.
..... Group patrol altitude is 10000
..... Raid is overhead
"


While my Buffalos had a good time shooting down 15 Jap bombers in two raids, that wasn't really their mission... they were not in LRCAP...

So, what gives? Was that changed from the manual definition and CAP/LRCAP behave in similar ways?

Also, may want to tune down that CAP in Malay in turn 1... there was actually no CAP around to help Force Z, so perhaps all Buffalos on Malay should be on Rest on turn 1.


Cheers [:D]
fbs

[Oddball_France]

[align=left]maybe put that cap with range max = 0 ? [/align]

[Chickenboy]

This was a problem in 'vanilla' AE, supposedly corrected post-patch I. Which version are you playing?

[loricas]

the diference is intentionality: Cap is always in the hex the air unit is based and may be present in strike in range: this is random

in your exemple you have luck so the force Z is protected.

in your game the 4 patrol Buffalo are so close to force Z to intercept the bomber. in real life is not.

LRCAP is always in the hex you choice; so if you want to be sure force Z have fighter cover you must put in LRCAP with force Z as target

if you want to be sure CAP remain only in the own base set range to 0

[davbaker]

Page 172:

7.4.1
CAP may react to defend a target as far as 2 hexes away.

To do so, the hex to be defended must be attacked by more aircraft then are defending the hex, and the hex the CAP is going to come from must be under attack by less aircraft than are currently flying CAP over that hex (checked for each air unit, one at a time).
The CAP that is going to fly out of their hex must have an extended range that would reach the hex to be defended (but no more than 2 hexes away). Also, in order for this extra coverage to happen, the attack must be detected by radar in time to allow for the CAP to reach the target (an intercept is allowed 33% of the time even when there is no radar). The exact number of aircraft that will cover outside their hex is dependent on how good the radar detection is on the incoming strike.

I think this is what you're seeing.

I'm sure I've seen a Dev post that they count on this LRCAP bleed over benefit quite a lot as pilots will only accrue fatigue when they actually perform the 'react' LRCAP as opposed to fatigue all the time when dedicated to LRCAP.

[fbs]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

This was a problem in 'vanilla' AE, supposedly corrected post-patch I. Which version are you playing?

This is from 1.0.1.1084

Cheers [:D]
fbs

[fbs]

ORIGINAL: davbaker

Page 172:

7.4.1
CAP may react to defend a target as far as 2 hexes away.

To do so, the hex to be defended must be attacked by more aircraft then are defending the hex, and the hex the CAP is going to come from must be under attack by less aircraft than are currently flying CAP over that hex (checked for each air unit, one at a time).
The CAP that is going to fly out of their hex must have an extended range that would reach the hex to be defended (but no more than 2 hexes away). Also, in order for this extra coverage to happen, the attack must be detected by radar in time to allow for the CAP to reach the target (an intercept is allowed 33% of the time even when there is no radar). The exact number of aircraft that will cover outside their hex is dependent on how good the radar detection is on the incoming strike.

I think this is what you're seeing.

I'm sure I've seen a Dev post that they count on this LRCAP bleed over benefit quite a lot as pilots will only accrue fatigue when they actually perform the 'react' LRCAP as opposed to fatigue all the time when dedicated to LRCAP.

Ohh... good information. Appreciate it. One more thing, though... Singapore to (52,82) is 3 hexes...

This happened with these units, all on CAP, on a single turn:

No. 21 Sqn from Georgetown to Alor Star - 1 hex, 2 raids out of 2 intercepted
No. 243 Sqn from Singapore to (52,82) - 3 hexes, 4 raids out of 4 intercepted
No. 21 Sqn from Georgetown to Kota Bharu - 3 hexes, 1 raid out of 2 intercepted
No. 488 Sqn from Singapore to (52,82) - 3 hexes, 4 raids out of 4 intercepted
No. 453 Sqn from Singapore to (52,82) - 3 hexes, 2 raids out of 4 intercepted

So, out of 8 raids (4 to Force Z, 2 to Alor Star, 2 to Kota Bharu), 100% of them were intercepted with CAP flying 3 hexes away... and out 16 possible CAP interceptions at either 1 or 3 hexes, 13 (= 81%) actually happened.

With these numbers there is no reason to have LRCAP... CAP will work just as well.

Cheers [:D]
fbs

[fbs]

ORIGINAL: loricas

the diference is intentionality: Cap is always in the hex the air unit is based and may be present in strike in range: this is random

in your exemple you have luck so the force Z is protected.

in your game the 4 patrol Buffalo are so close to force Z to intercept the bomber. in real life is not.

LRCAP is always in the hex you choice; so if you want to be sure force Z have fighter cover you must put in LRCAP with force Z as target

if you want to be sure CAP remain only in the own base set range to 0

Thank you; you mean set Escort with target on Force Z, and then allocate say 100% LR CAP?

I didn't know LR CAP had a target.. I thought the target is only for the primary mission (Escort in this case). Any advise is welcome.

Thanks [:D]
fbs

[rogueusmc]

In WitP, LRCAP was set when at 100% and could decide the defended hex or TF or let the unit commander decide.

In AE, you can set the LRCAP mission for less than 100% of your air unit. You can then assign it a hex to defend on LRCAP, a TF to defend (until it goes out of range) or let the commander on site decide the LRCAP area given the radius you have designated...kinda cool actually.

Lee

[fbs]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

In WitP, LRCAP was set when at 100% and could decide the defended hex or TF or let the unit commander decide.

In AE, you can set the LRCAP mission for less than 100% of your air unit. You can then assign it a hex to defend on LRCAP, a TF to defend (until it goes out of range) or let the commander on site decide the LRCAP area given the radius you have designated...kinda cool actually.

Lee

I'm a bit confused with this target for LRCAP thing. Say that I want 50% of my squadron to sweep against target "A", and 50% to do LRCAP on target "B"... which target do I put on the orders screen?

I thought I was entering target "A", not "B"... that is, the target for CAP/LRCAP were always on commander's discretion.


Thanks! [:D]
fbs

[michaelm75au]

There is only one 'target' allowed to be set by a player for groups.
Once we started splitting up the group, it starts to look like there is a need for more than one 'target'.
At the present time, that is not possible.

[fbs]

Right, so, how does it work now? If I'm on 50% sweep and 50% LRCAP, should I enter the target for sweep or for LR CAP on the group orders?

If I'm on 100% sweep and 0% LRCAP, I'm pretty sure that the target we enter is for sweep.

Conversely, if I'm on 0% sweep and 100% LRCAP, are you guys sure I can enter the LRCAP target there? That is the game will not think that is the target for the sweep?


Thanks,
fbs

[Mynok]

It will likely make the target for both missions. That would be my guess.

You'd probably need to physically split the group to accomplish this kind of mission.

[fbs]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
It will likely make the target for both missions. That would be my guess.

You'd probably need to physically split the group to accomplish this kind of mission.

Well, at this moment I'm trying to figure out if you can establish a target for LR CAP or not. The scenarios I'm describing are these:

(a) 100% Sweep, 0% LRCAP --> the target will be used for Sweep, for sure
(b) 50% Sweep, 50% LRCAP --> will the target be used for Sweep, LRCAP or both?
(c) 0% Sweep, 100% LRCAP --> will the target be used for Sweep, LRCAP or both?

From the answers above it seems that people believe that the answer to (c) is LRCAP, but it is no clear to me if that is for logical reasoning (it is a logical answer) or a sure behavior of the game -- sometimes the game works in mysterious ways (just like God).


Cheers [:D]
fbs

ps: the other behavior I'm trying to figure out is what are the differences between CAP and LRCAP... as CAP is going out for 3 hexes (instead of the 2 listed in the manual) I wonder if CAP will go out to the max radius in the mission (in my case, 6 hexes)