Question about Ceding Provinces

[Kai]

Here is the situation:

I am France. I have created a Swedish Free state.

I declare war on Russia. During the war, Russia invades and Conquers Sweden.

Eventually, Russia surrenders unconditionally, and cedes 3 provinces. I have checked the boxes for White Russia, Finland, and Sweden.

At the time of surrender, Russia has garrisons and corps in both Finland and Sweden. No units of any sort in White Russia.

The problem is that control over Finland and Sweden never was ceded to me (France.) I received control over White Russia, but the other two have remained under Russian control.

Have I missed something? Shouldn't I control Finland and Sweden?
(My political status was "dominant" throughout.)

An interesting note: When I load the game, then on the Strategic Map in the bottom right hand corner, both Finland and Sweden show up as mine (colored light blue) but if I click on either province in the game map, then the strategic map changes the color to green thereafter (Russia.)

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Kai

Here is the situation:

I am France. I have created a Swedish Free state.

I declare war on Russia. During the war, Russia invades and Conquers Sweden.

Eventually, Russia surrenders unconditionally, and cedes 3 provinces. I have checked the boxes for White Russia, Finland, and Sweden.

At the time of surrender, Russia has garrisons and corps in both Finland and Sweden. No units of any sort in White Russia.

The problem is that control over Finland and Sweden never was ceded to me (France.) I received control over White Russia, but the other two have remained under Russian control.

Have I missed something? Shouldn't I control Finland and Sweden?
(My political status was "dominant" throughout.)

An interesting note: When I load the game, then on the Strategic Map in the bottom right hand corner, both Finland and Sweden show up as mine (colored light blue) but if I click on either province in the game map, then the strategic map changes the color to green thereafter (Russia.)

You might have had corps in the country at the time you checked those boxes but not at the time of surrender. I believe that at the time of surrender you have to have either 1) corps in that province or 2) own a minor/province adjacent to that province.... something like that, it's in the rulebook.

[Dancing Bear]

alternatively, the contorl of a minor is not fully resolved in 1.06, and Russia did not have "control" of the minior to cede it to you. This is reportedly fixed in 1.07.

[bresh]

I seen similiar happend in one of my pbm games, there it was Venice that was not ceeded from Austria to France as part of surrender term.

Neverman its only for homeprovinces you need to be neighbour/or have corps in, as far as i can remember.
Minor countries provinces dont have those restrictions for surrender-ceeding purpose.

Regards
Bresh

[NeverMan]

Maybe this is a bug then....

..if Marshall is using the same code to "cede a province" and to "get a province via surrender" then this is most likely the case and I would expect bugs from trying to use the same code here.

[bresh]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Maybe this is a bug then....

..if Marshall is using the same code to "cede a province" and to "get a province via surrender" then this is most likely the case and I would expect bugs from trying to use the same code here.

Sorry forgot to describe that what we encountered was also the ceeding of a minor province as part of surrender term.

Regards
Bresh

[ndrose]

Per EiA, I believe it is correct that minors should be available to be ceded whether or not they border your territory. IIRC, in earlier versions of EiANW, non-bordering minors were not, however, listed in the peace conditions window. Now they are, but as noted above, don't actually seem to cede correctly. (Which is worse than not listing them, really.)

[bresh]

ORIGINAL: ndrose

Per EiA, I believe it is correct that minors should be available to be ceded whether or not they border your territory. IIRC, in earlier versions of EiANW, non-bordering minors were not, however, listed in the peace conditions window. Now they are, but as noted above, don't actually seem to cede correctly. (Which is worse than not listing them, really.)

Well Venetia(Venice) was neighbour to Lombardy that was French controlled, so its not that they where not bordering to the French.

Issue might be about ceeding any minor as part of surrender ?

Regards
Bresh

[ndrose]

Well Venetia(Venice) was neighbour to Lombardy that was French controlled, so its not that they where not bordering to the French.

Issue might be about ceeding any minor as part of surrender ?

Hmm, OK, I take back what I said above. Further testing reveals that the problem is not in ceding non-bordering minors, it is in ceding *anything* under certain conditions.

I have to play around with this some more, but it looks to me that the problem arises when a country surrenders to one enemy but not another.

Here's what I did:

Started game as France and Spain (other nations AI). Spain DoWs France. Next month, France surrenders. Spain has "3 provinces" as victory condition.

Since Spain has no troops in France, France must surrender to all nations (i.e. also GB). France does so, but refuses unconditional with GB, so that war continues. So far, so good.

However, Spain does not get its three provinces. And it does NOT matter which three are checked--even those that border Spain directly. Looking at the log, in fact, I see that only one condition was enforced.

So then I went back, and made cede three provinces the FIRST listed condition. Then the provinces were ceded--even if they did NOT border Spain. However, then the other conditions were not enforced.

So what's going on? My guess: the game wants to take turns in condition selection among the victors. But since GB doesn't make peace, and so doesn't make a selection, it's stopping the process after Spain makes its first choice. Just a guess, though.... Have to try with some other combinations.

[ndrose]

Sorry, the above also is wrong....

After more tests, it appears that it doesn't matter how many nations you surrender to. If the player who surrenders is *human*, only the first condition is met. (I think. This is very strange....)

Playing against the AI, if I exact a surrender, I get all three of my selected conditions, no problem.

But playing both nations human, only the first condition.

Example: started game, France and GB human. France surrenders to GB. If reparations is first listed condition, GB gets reparations, but nothing else. If three provinces is first, GB gets three provinces, but nothing else. (and can take non-bordering minors, so that part's fine).

Anyone else want to try some different situations? That's how it looks to me, though. This is in 1.07, by the way.

[bresh]

I take it, in your tests you did not have "dont give up provinces" or whats its called, as conditon or was it unconditional surrender to Spain ?
 
Regards
Bresh

[ndrose]

ORIGINAL: bresh

I take it, in your tests you did not have "dont give up provinces" or whats its called, as conditon or was it unconditional surrender to Spain ?

Regards
Bresh

It was unconditional. I haven't tested any conditional surrenders; since with those there's only one condition anyway, I was assuming they're working right. (Or if not, I guess that would be a different bug!)

[Kai]

I was playing against the AI.

I should note that I have previously been able to take ceded provinces and minor countries from other AI countries. I've taken so many away from Prussia, it is now very tiny. This is the first time I have experienced this particular bug.

I was guessing that it had to do with having Russian corps and garrisons in the minor country, as in my previous attempts to obtain ceded provinces, the surrenduring party didn't have any forces in the areas to be surrendered.

ORIGINAL: ndrose

Sorry, the above also is wrong....

After more tests, it appears that it doesn't matter how many nations you surrender to. If the player who surrenders is *human*, only the first condition is met. (I think. This is very strange....)

Playing against the AI, if I exact a surrender, I get all three of my selected conditions, no problem.

But playing both nations human, only the first condition.

Example: started game, France and GB human. France surrenders to GB. If reparations is first listed condition, GB gets reparations, but nothing else. If three provinces is first, GB gets three provinces, but nothing else. (and can take non-bordering minors, so that part's fine).

Anyone else want to try some different situations? That's how it looks to me, though. This is in 1.07, by the way.

[ndrose]

I was playing against the AI.

Huh, now I'm also having the same problem playing against the AI, though like you I didn't see this problem previously.

As above, I can get three provinces as a peace condition, but only if I put it at the top of the list. I only get the first condition.

Only difference I can see offhand between this and the game in which it worked correctly is that there I was playing France, and now I'm playing Russia.

I don't know what's going on, but whatever it is, it's broken.

[Marshall Ellis]

I'll be checking this out this morning...
SO, to be on the same page, no matter what type of game, only the first condition is granted in unconditional surrender?

[Trax]

Marshall you can use the file set at Mantis #570 for testing. Our experience is that some options are working while others like ceeding and 3 corps are not. We see more than one option per nation implemented.

[ndrose]

SO, to be on the same page, no matter what type of game, only the first condition is granted in unconditional surrender?

No, sometimes it works correctly. That's what's confusing about it. I played through a whole game as France vs. AI in which I was consistently (at least in the cases I checked in the log) given all three conditions I had selected. But in lots of other cases I find it not working. Could be it only works for France? (But all my other guesses about the pattern so far have proved wrong, so who knows?)

[ndrose]

Marshall you can use the file set at Mantis #570 for testing. Our experience is that some options are working while others like ceeding and 3 corps are not. We see more than one option per nation implemented.

Order definitely matters. You can change the default order in which the conditions are taken by highlighting them and using the arrow buttons. If I do that I find that I can make any given condition be implemented by putting it at the top of the list. But then whatever it bumped is not implemented.

[ndrose]

I ran another test. France and Spain human, others AI. France DoWs Spain. Then I tried different surrenders. If Spain surrenders to France, France gets to implement all three of its conditions (including taking provinces). If France surrenders to Spain but not GB, Spain only gets one condition. If France surrenders to both, they each get one condition. (All surrenders were unconditionals.)

Interestingly, the game is at least in some way aware of the list of chosen conditions, because when France surrendered to both Spain and GB, GB could not implement its first choice since Spain had already taken it. So GB got its second choice. But still only one.

Anyway, it's looking like the hypothesis that only France gets three conditions may be the right one.

[Kai]

This happened again. I am France.

I defeated Turkey. Chose 3 provinces. It gave me one province (Syria) but did not give me Egypt or Palestine (where Turkey had corps and garrisons.)

When I defeated Russia again, it gave me all three ceded provinces (all Russian territory, none of which had troops in them.)

I am seeing some commonalities. All of the problems have been with conquered territories and all of these conquered territories have had corps/garrisons of the surrenduring nation in them.