WWII USAAF/USAF made the wrong choice in bomber making

[Walloc]

Ok,

So there is no Jap initial bonus? in AE and AE= allied edition, right.


Afternoon Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 29,100 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
B5N2 Kate x 144



Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 41


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 16 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 6 destroyed on ground
A-24 Banshee: 17 destroyed on ground
Hudson I: 4 destroyed on ground
Vildebeest III: 3 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 115

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

So u have a accuracy of 50% hit rate from 8000m up in a Kate level bombing. A very light bomber in heavy rains, being harrashed by CAP, right.
No japanease supermen in this game.

Why did the USAAF go through all that trouble and develop the Norden sight and build large 4E bombers. Even in their best of days they never neared a hit rate like that. To make precision bombing all u had to do was copy some Kates and draft some of the American/japanease male population.
Sorry to say but either the xp bonus to bombing is seriously faulted atm or any under the hood bonus is just out right rediciolus.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Mike Scholl]

Have to agree..., level bombing from high altitude was certainly not the forte of the Kate Torpedo Bomber.  The didn't do this well from 9000 feet in perfect conditions with no opposition at PH.  Something needs a "fix".

[NightFlyer]

The real question is does this happen every raid? A sample size of one does not make for good statistics. I am a little amused by the hysteria when KB spent more than one day at PH even though they had a refueling TF and plenty of ammo. I've read that now some scenarios now have a "quiet" China and no KB attack on PH at all! Why not make the AFB happy by removing all IJN ships and LCU? Oh wait, then they would complain about there being too many rocks on the islands banging up their landing craft [:D]

Personally I want a "quiet" Soviet Union and no A-bombs, and yes the Allied AI cheats just as much as the Jap AI.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Ok,

So there is no Jap initial bonus? in AE and AE= allied edition, right.


Afternoon Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 29,100 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
B5N2 Kate x 144



Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 41


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 16 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 6 destroyed on ground
A-24 Banshee: 17 destroyed on ground
Hudson I: 4 destroyed on ground
Vildebeest III: 3 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 115

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

So u have a accuracy of 50% hit rate from 8000m up in a Kate level bombing. A very light bomber in heavy rains, being harrashed by CAP, right.
No japanease supermen in this game.

Why did the USAAF go through all that trouble and develop the Norden sight and build large 4E bombers. Even in their best of days they never neared a hit rate like that. To make precision bombing all u had to do was copy some Kates and draft some of the American/japanease male population.
Sorry to say but either the xp bonus to bombing is seriously faulted atm or any under the hood bonus is just out right rediciolus.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

Out of curiousity, what is the experince level of the Kate pilots? [&:]

[Walloc]

Frankly i digress,

First its a PBEM game, so no AI cheat i assume. U never know [:D]

That such a hit rate is even a remote possibility by ur reason is so completly of the mark
IMHO. If it is it simply alters the decision making process u have as a gamer.
Maybe at best u would see at BEST few % hit rates in that weather, altitude, specific bomber involved and opposition taken into account.
Sure i dont mind it varying some what, but if it can go to 50% hit rate . Many many many times more than expected, u end up a situasion. Hey why not try if the "dice" is with me it will succede.
Making things u'd never do a possibility. It in effect removes all and any FLAK effect. If u have the chance to do good raids at this altitude. U'd see all raids at this altitude.
Way to remove that is not making such results possible as indeed they'd never be in real life.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[xj900uk]

It is worth noting though that in thier sole raid on Darwin, the KB did tremendously well and virtually destroyed the place - the port was not fully rebuilt until 1946 and was of virtually no use to the Aussie war effort from that point on.  In fact it has been argued that the Darwin raid actually did more (strategic) damage than Pearl Harbour to the Allies...

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Out of curiousity, what is the experince level of the Kate pilots? [&:]

U'd have to ask YH for that, but since they not taken any casulties worth noticing since PH and íts the 8 dec scn. I'd say its the same as they start with in the 8th dec scn.

Doesnt explain the result in any way IMHO.
No pilots, no matter how good gets 50% hit rates in a kate from 8000m in heavy rains, being harrashed by cap.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

It is worth noting though that in thier sole raid on Darwin, the KB did tremendously well and virtually destroyed the place - the port was not fully rebuilt until 1946 and was of virtually no use to the Aussie war effort from that point on.  In fact it has been argued that the Darwin raid actually did more (strategic) damage than Pearl Harbour to the Allies...

Did they historicly attack from 8000m? in heavy rains being harrashed by a much larger figther force than in real life? and the attack unlike here a surprise.

Else there is no point in even trying to stop the KB. If its automaticly succesfull no matter the curcumstances.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[xj900uk]

They attacked mainly level bombers from quite low altitude (the film Australia is quite accurate in this depiction) in good weather.  There was surprisingly total surprise from the Aussies and hardly any planes got off to intercept them

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

They attacked mainly level bombers from quite low altitude (the film Australia is quite accurate in this depiction) in good weather.  There was surprisingly total surprise from the Aussies and hardly any planes got off to intercept them

Exactly my point, unlike here. I knew he was comming had 3+ FG/squadrons rdy. He attacked in VERY bad weather, at extrem altitude.
Its a question of is this result credible in any way considering the curcumstances.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[xj900uk]

I believe you do have a point if the KB are doing this every turn regardless of opposition (PH and Darwin they completely surprised them swamped the defenders). Suggest you post it on the bug sub-forum to the developers that the KB are just too powerful/unstoppable and their high-altitude Kate bombers are doing far too much damage/hitting too often

[erstad]

Forget the report, how many planes did you actually lose? Load the pre-turn save and count the losses.

It may be that losses were what the report says. But then again, perhaps not.

I have no doubt the Kates claimed that many destroyed [8|]

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Ok,

So there is no Jap initial bonus? in AE and AE= allied edition, right.


Afternoon Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 29,100 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
B5N2 Kate x 144



Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 41


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 16 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 6 destroyed on ground
A-24 Banshee: 17 destroyed on ground
Hudson I: 4 destroyed on ground
Vildebeest III: 3 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 115

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 27100 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

So u have a accuracy of 50% hit rate from 8000m up in a Kate level bombing. A very light bomber in heavy rains, being harrashed by CAP, right.
No japanease supermen in this game.

Why did the USAAF go through all that trouble and develop the Norden sight and build large 4E bombers. Even in their best of days they never neared a hit rate like that. To make precision bombing all u had to do was copy some Kates and draft some of the American/japanease male population.
Sorry to say but either the xp bonus to bombing is seriously faulted atm or any under the hood bonus is just out right rediciolus.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Ok, and what about expressing your opinion without sounding like a whining kid who just got his toy broken, antagonizing people instead of trying to think the problem out?
As far as I am concerned, if you expect any help, you can go to hell.

KIND REGARDS.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Walloc

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Out of curiousity, what is the experince level of the Kate pilots? [&:]

U'd have to ask YH for that, but since they not taken any casulties worth noticing since PH and íts the 8 dec scn. I'd say its the same as they start with in the 8th dec scn.

Doesnt explain the result in any way IMHO.
No pilots, no matter how good gets 50% hit rates in a kate from 8000m in heavy rains, being harrashed by cap.

Maybe, but one Kate on December 7th did score an incredible one in a million shot. You are right that you should not see this kind of success consistantly , but a very experinced group of pilots could have gotten lucky. Watch and see if they do it again. [:)]
Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Canoerebel]

I'm probably missing something, but how does 144 Kates scoring 12 hits = 50% success?

[crsutton]

What is the experience of your p40? What is the date? My early p40 units in OZ have very low experience levels. Below 40 on average. But they are withdrawn early in the game.
 
It is just one attack. I am finding that Japanese bombers are not that deadly in my game. It seems to be working well. This is just one example. You need to provide more examples before forming a general conclusion.
 
Now don't get me started about land combat in China......[:@]

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: erstad

Forget the report, how many planes did you actually lose? Load the pre-turn save and count the losses.

It may be that losses were what the report says. But then again, perhaps not.

I have no doubt the Kates claimed that many destroyed [8|]

Its not so much the losses Erstad. Question of are u able to have a 50% hit rate with level bombing from 8km with an Kate. Weather, and other curcumstances considering.
I have counted the losses and compared. The airfield was overstacked i expect to see more losses.
Thats not the question here tho. I've never questioned the losses directly. The question is can u level bomb from 8km in a kate in heavy rain, while being harrashed and expect to hit any thing. Let alone 50% of the bombs. That ofc indirectly affects the losses.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm probably missing something, but how does 144 Kates scoring 12 hits = 50% success?

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 115

Flattening the airfield.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Ok, and what about expressing your opinion without sounding like a whining kid who just got his toy broken, antagonizing people instead of trying to think the problem out?
As far as I am concerned, if you expect any help, you can go to hell.

KIND REGARDS.

Ur intitled to ur opinion. How you ur self sounds is up to u.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[RevRick]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm probably missing something, but how does 144 Kates scoring 12 hits = 50% success?

On the other hand, how do 12 bomb hits from 500#(roughly) destroy 36 AC on the ground AND deliver 115 runway hit points. I haven't seen that many runway hit points with a flock of B17s, at least not yet.