AltHist-A: Shall We Try Again?

[terje439]

Britain MUST insist that Russia backs down from an allready explosive situation, if not the British will have to fight. Does the Tzar really want to risk losing his ships and forever anger the British people?
The same goes for Austria, Preussia and Poland, if this war does not end soon, you need to be prepared to lose any naval units you have, and any hope of ever getting finacial aid from Britain.

Stronger weapons Britain does not yet have, but they are being formed, and remember that a British square NEVER breaks!

(oh well, as long as the ammo boxes are not locked I mean [;)])

KGVIVIVI

[montesaurus]

HI Guys,
I'm in an airport in SA and will be home late tonight. I'll post my turn tomorrow am.

[Randomizer]

Once again and for the benefit of all Europe, Austria has no territorial demands on Poland. The escalation of the Prussian-Polish conflict might be seen as the inevitable response to initial unreasonable demands and the hasty decision for War before all diplomatic options had been exhausted. For her part Austria intends and hopes to remain at Peace even though we have no fleet to destroy...

Perhaps George, King of the Britons, should also consider not charging so precipitously into the War in the East.

[Anthropoid]

Villars: you MUST update the first post in this thread with the names of the actual players of each nation!! [:@]

[terje439]

I am late for work and will reply tomorrow

[Marshal Villars]

The names list is now updated Anthropoid. Thanks for bringing that up!

[Marshal Villars]

Poland is willing to accept a joint ruling from France and Britain on the matter in Prussia.

Our initial demands were reasonable. We have offered a settlement to Prussia which would cease all conflict immediately. And we will now offer a slightly modified deal:

1. All Prussian forces are to stay put where they are at currently.
2. Prussia and Poland agree to a cease fire. (This was previously a demand to have Prussia surrender, but has been altered for this posting as a new offer)
3. Prussia gains Saxony and Lusatia by having Poland release them as a protectorate and allowing Prussia to invade unhindered.
4. Poland gains Breslau (as initially indicated and decided on by most in the international community, this would have been fair-- before Poland took on tremendous risk in an operation to save what was rightfully 100% POLISH Saxony). As part of the deal, Poland also gains the province of Silesia as compensation for the war which was literally forced upon us (note that Silesia is not a Prussian home land according to the house rules--and it is illegally pilfered land in Prussian possession for 50 years at this point).

Prussia has refused a previous and similar offer of mine, and indicated that they will fight on--in spite of the fact that the Polish War College has gamed and regamed the scenario and Prussia will lose any attempt to save Berlin because they have 1) fewer men, 2) poorer leadership, 3) poorer morale.

IF PRUSSIA DOES NOT TAKE THIS REASONABLE OFFER NOW AND ATTACKS POLISH TROOPS OR MOVES IN TO POLISH TERRITORY (EITHER SAXONY OR POLAND PROPER), then Poland will have little choice but to conquer Prussia after dealing another blow to Prussian forces which must come for Berlin to avoid conquest. Poland has also warned Prussia that any additional aggression will result in a much worse outcome for Prussia than the offered deal. These are the rules of war. If they accept the deal above, this war is over as far as I am concerned. Poland would appreciate it if the international community weigh in on this matter and we hope the international community understands this complicated situation dealing with a Prussian king unwilling to compromise before the international community--even in defeat. I am confused as to what to do here really. But I do know if just one more Polish officer is killed Poland will be justified in demanding more than the peace offered above at the final negotiating table.

I feel like Monty Python's King Arthur fighting the Black Knight, and I have already cut both of his arms and a leg off.

I am willing to accept intervention. I am willing to accept peace. My initial offers were reasonable. But Prussia simply insists on fighting over her illegal invasion of Saxony and her unreasonable demands to make it all hers. What is Poland to do?

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Marshal Villars

The names list is now updated Anthropoid. Thanks for bringing that up!

Rules update. I noticed that if I were Prussia I would be wanting to surrender as a result of a legitimate war which was pushing me into the insurrection zone now. As a result I have added the following exception to rule 5.0:

5.8 Exception: A nation which has a national morale lower than 400 may surrender in the second or third turn of any war. However, if they do so, each of the victors gain one additional province which must be turned over after the war in addition to any peace treaties which may be imposed. If a surrendering nation taking advantage of this rule is comprised of more than 20 provinces, it surrenders a total of 2 additional provinces of the victor's choice to each winner in a separate treaty concluded the same turn as the surrender treaty. If a nation is comprised of 35 or more provinces, it surrenders a total of 3 additional provinces of the victor's choice to each winner concluded the same turn as the surrender treaty.

This rule change seems unreasonable. Better to keep the requirement to 4 turns of war and let people get out of any surrender terms what they get out. This would seem to offer an "out" that is actually far more damaging than the result of waiting another turn or two would likely be, especially considering the rule changes regarding taking lands.

[Marshal Villars]

Okay Mus. Perhaps we don't need it. Let's try it the original way. Perhaps we still have to assume that the vested interests won't let the nation surrender -- even if provinces are being lost to insurrection.

No change to rule 5.0.

[Marshal Villars]

Again, Poland will accept any peace terms dictated by France and Britain jointly. But we don't think Prussia will.

We encourage France and Britain to put together a peace proposal here and we agree to honor it--whatever it may be.

[terje439]

Britain and France are doing some talks in Paris over British beer trying to find a working solution to the little European situation.
We will post back soon.

Btw - replied.

[terje439]

After a case of Newcastle Brown Ale, Britain and France feels that the following proposition should be acceptable to all parts, and we hope everybody takes some time to think it through.


1. Britain will pay Austria and Russia a one time sum of 100$
2. Preussia will cede Breslau to Poland
3. Britain will pay 50$ per turn to Preussia untill January -93
4. Poland will cede Saxony and Lusatia to Poland
5. Britain will pay 70$ per turn to Poland untill January -93
6. Mecklenburg is to be considered Preussian territory

[montesaurus]

Prussia acquiesces to the ruling of GB/FR.

[IronWarrior]

Hey guys I will be unavailable this weekend starting Friday for a couple/few days.

[Randomizer]

Bravo Brave Prussia!  Austria commends your Great Sacrifice for the sake of Peace in Europe.

[Marshal Villars]

Poland is willing to accept this deal as presented if we are given two additional territory in Germany.

Possible candidates include Brunswick, Hesse, Nassau or any other two contiguous minor states/provinces.

We simply want an official stamp of approval from Britain, France, Austria, and Prussia that these additional territories belongs to Polish interests and that we not enter a conflict with anyone when we seize them in the next months.

The fact that if the war continues that Prussia WILL collapse in two turns at the latest, may lose East Prussia to insurrection, and WILL lose Breslau and Saxony (or at the very least Lusatia) as a result and brought Poland to do something which we HATED doing just to claim what was ours, should be taken into account. I am not interested in punishing Prussia in this matter. Poland feels the alternative to demanding more land from Prussia (not desirable--as it can only lead to hard feelings) is to assign two German territories to Polish control.

Poland has paid a HEAVY price because of this conflict and has agreed to cede three provinces (Courland, Kovno, and one to be named) to Russia in exchange for protection against our strong-willed (and honorable) Prussian neighbors. We were reminded of this commitment in a diplomatic dispatch received just today. This is a price paid by Poland as a result of this war to enforce what virtually everyone in the international community saw as a fair deal concerning Saxony and Breslau.

If this cost is recognized with the international community's recognition of two Polish provinces in Germany, we will consider the decision to be fair and to take into account the tremendous costs, stresses, and losses which have been imposed on the people of Poland as a result of this.

Again, we are not interested in punishing Prussia (but will take Breslau as a swap) and would like to be compensated with Brunswick (or a comparable piece of real estate not too far removed) for all of the trouble we have been forced to go to and the deals we have been forced to make because of all of this.

We would like peace and to offer a cease fire to Prussia this turn. Please--let this be so with the recognition of two non-committed German territories as Polish.

Most sincerely,

Poniatowski
First Consul of the Polish Commonwealth

[Randomizer]

This is not a good development.  Prussia has accepted the British formula for Peace but now Warsaw wants more even after:

Again, Poland will accept any peace terms dictated by France and Britain jointly. But we don't think Prussia will.

We encourage France and Britain to put together a peace proposal here and we agree to honor it--whatever it may be.

What says Britain and France of this Polish volte-face?

[Marshal Villars]

I have not said I won't accept it. I am saying what I would like. What is NOT a good development is that Poland HAS PROMISED to Russia THREE eastern provinces BECAUSE of this war.

Britain and France were not aware of this when this was discussed (well, France might have been). Now they are.

Believe me, Russia is VERY aware of this promise. And it was forced on me by the war with Prussia.

Note that if Poland does not hand over the provinces to Russia, we won't want lands in Germany. But, believe me, I don't want to make an enemy out of Russia now that we have spent tremendous effort in negotiations to keep a naturally expansion interested Russia happy. You will see, that Poland WILL hand over the provinces.

[Marshal Villars]

I am still willing to accept ANY final decision from France and Britain. However, they have to know the facts.

If Russia doesn't get the three provinces which I have promised them for their protection, then **POLAND** will have to pay for this and it will not be pleasant. Again, this is a cost borne by Poland because of the war which the French and British did not know about. Yet, they can easily confirm it with Russia.

So, who will pay for my three provinces? The repercussions of refusing fair deals are great.

I do not want anyone to pay for my three provinces. But would like uncommitted provinces instead. They don't even have to be in Germany.

Again, I am still willing to accept any peace dictated by France and Britain--no questions asked. This has not changed. But they must know of the costs I have suffered.

If they come and say, "Yes, now we know and Poland, accept the deal as is", I will.

Poland comes to Britain and France humbly, merely requesting that this be taken into consideration with your final decision. Whatever your final decision is, we will accept it. Even if it means that Poland shall lose the three eastern provinces without any compensation.

[Randomizer]

Austria strongly disagrees that the Russian-Polish situation has anything whatever to do with the Prussian-Polish Peace Plan as promulgated by the Gracious King George of Britain.
 
Poland's current situation appears largely self-inflicted and now they seem to be crying foul, having angered the Mighty Czar of All the Russia's and King Wilhelm both.
 
Austria very strongly urges Poland's allies to insist that Poland live up to its promises and accept the formula offered in the Newcastle Brown Ale convention without modification.