Luftwaffe Field divisions

[j campbell]

Hi,

Is it mandatory to field the Luftwaffe field divisions or can we elect not to build them and use their manpower and equipment to replenish other worn down units?

Second question: I imagine this to be yes but are all the small freiwiilling units in the game as well such as SS Nederland and others?

[PyleDriver]

As far as LW units its the same as everything else. Everything is being as close to historical as our research permits...
I not sure about the Nederland unit (haven't played that far) but I'm sure that Jim (jaw) will include it. We have included many Mot brigades, 900th Lehr, 1st SS and such, so my guess is it will be there...

[j campbell]

Hi Pyledriver-many thanks for the swift reply.

There were alot of foreign units involved in holding the narva bridgehead in 1944. Alot of small obscure units such as the nederland brigade and an estonian division and others. i figured they would be included in the game - but was just making sure

Out of curiosity, Do reinforcement units come on map at fullstrength? I thought i read somewhere on the foru that one could disband units-what are the effects for disbanding a unit-say a division? Do the equipment and manpower get placed back in the common pool and the leader back in a pool ro is it different?

Just thinking ahead here but i am already gearing up for this game.
cheers,
john

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: j campbell

Hi,

Is it mandatory to field the Luftwaffe field divisions or can we elect not to build them and use their manpower and equipment to replenish other worn down units?

Second question: I imagine this to be yes but are all the small freiwiilling units in the game as well such as SS Nederland and others?

The Axis reinforcements are fixed so you will get the Luftwaffe field divisions. You do have the option to disband them but I would recommend using them for filling garrison requirements and chasing partisans. An abundance of units is usually not an Axis luxury.

Not withstanding a few exceptions (like Grossdeutschland) the game does not model manuever units below brigade level so many of the SS units you're referring to do not enter the game until they've expanded to brigade size or larger.

[Capt Cliff]

Not building LW Field division and using the manpower for the Heer units would NEVER have happened. Ole Herman would never had let his boy's be used that way. There was such good cooperation between the German Military that's it's no wonder that they didn't lose the war! What? Huh? You mean they LOST!!! No one told me!!! [:D]

[PyleDriver]

Cliif good point, I said on another post, I comes down to th hand your delt...Hum...Can you do it with that hand?...Thus the beauty...

[j campbell]

Well i wouldn't go as far to say it would never had happened.

With the different power splits within the Reich -wehrmacht-OKW-OKH, luftwaffe, kriegsmarine, and all the different SS it came down to who had Hitler's ear at the time and wielded the most influence. Essentially, Hermann Goering having his say over that of if we believe was the case - Manstein's wanting to use those troops to replenish units that had worn down through combat.

Seems obvious to me that those troops would have been better served in the wehrmacht than as their own fighting formations but common sense didn't seem to apply to the 3rd Reich.

Was thinking a political points system ala WiTP where you could gain a benefit here for a trade off some where else.

[PyleDriver]

This is not a "what If" game. Maybe latter, no promises... If your in charge of OKH, will you say I don't want those units? Of course not, you'll need them...

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

The LW Field Divs were officially created by an order of October 12, 1942. They were designed as second line units for security missions, as their strength was little more than that of a Brigade, lacking heavy equipment. However By an order of November 1943, OKH assumed control of the Luftwaffe Field divisions, and between then and mid 1944 they were reorganized up to the standard of the front line Wermacht Division

Source: Kevin Conley Ruffner, Luftwaffe Field Divisions 1941-1945, Osprey 1990.

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

This is not a "what If" game. Maybe latter, no promises... If your in charge of OKH, will you say I don't want those units? Of course not, you'll need them...

Yeah but ... it is a what if game ... what if Adolph and Joe don't interfere. This is the topic of another thread but had to mention it. Hitler's meddling is not modelled into the game. Some good, some bad. I always thought that making the Tiger to look like a PZIV was brillant.

[PyleDriver]

Good point Cliff. I should have stated it better. This game is full of what if's, however you have to use the tools given you. The best "what if" in the game is those two dumb %*$@^@! dont interfer with what you want to do...

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Good point Cliff. I should have stated it better. This game is full of what if's, however you have to use the tools given you. The best "what if" in the game is those two dumb %*$@^@! dont interfer with what you want to do...

Yeah ... but what if they do? What's the penalty? How about Adolph comes along and hems and haws and you lose a trun ... nothing happens? No units adjacent to enemy unit can do nothing. No moving reserves! Something like that. When the idiot bumps your elbow and you must wait for him to finish and turn his attention to Africa or the Med or U-Boats or what ever. Just leave me the !@#$^& alone!! But you just lost a turn ... gulp .. and that Soviet motorized army is breaking thru ... dam ... start looking for 1 SS PZ to plug the hole. See?

[PyleDriver]

Well theres only so much you can build in a game, and still make it fun. I think most people that studied the eastern front will find that, as I have, its the funnest simulation to hit the market...Well soon...Cliff after this hits, trust me, you may not have time to post...lol...

[Montbrun]

The Luftwaffe-Feld-Divisionen are an interesting curiosity. After creation, they were eventually transferred to the Heer (becoming "xx. Feld-Division (L)"), and then finally absorbed totally by the Heer (if not already destroyed), many being disbanded, and their personnel transferred to other Heer units . The 16th became the 16. Volksgrenadier Division. An excellent book on the subject is "Goring's Grenadiers: The Luftwaffe Field Divisions, 1942-1945," ISBN 1891227408, by Antonio Munoz, although I am a bit biased, having a research credit for this book.

[j campbell]

Hi Brad,

Thanks for the extra info.  That is a nice resource.  I get the feeling based on the alpha testers comments that if the TOE is identical across units including leadership, and experience they should fight the same.  I suppose i am hypothesizing that the luftwaffe field units would have limited fighting power and therefore might be better to disband them so that their manpower would be better served elsewhere.  However, it seems that they are more useful than not.     

[Zemke]

I feel the more in depth a game is and the more options you provide players, to include all the "what if" scenarios or options for a player the longer "legs" the game will have. I think this is one reason we have seen WitP become and stay so successful, also why certain game engines have an almost cult following long after other games have hit the dust bin. I too have wondered "what if" the manpower from the Luftwaffe-Field-Divisions had been put through the Heer training system and then sent as replacements, what effect would that have had. It is these historical "what ifs" that make war gaming so interesting.

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

The LWFD had some TOE peculiarities derived from their Luftwaffe origin, for instance yje use of a FLAK Bn with 2 light batteries and one heavy, and one FLAK company for every Bn in the Feldregiment