The Map

[Golden Bear]

It might be even more complicated. The map covers a sizeable area of the globe which is roughly spherical. There is no way to convert a spherical surface to a flat surface without distorting relative positions. That's part of why I started thinking to leave locations alone and do the best you can with the graphics.

The area under discussion in this thread is around Frankfurt. Examination of the map art tile for the region shows that the eastward jog of the Rhine is too far north of the river. But after dragging that into some reasonable place, the Rhine north of it is all messy and takes even more work.

I don't believe that it is something that can be successfully approached from a perfectly objective basis because of the sphere-flat thing along with the need to keep relative flight times sort of correct. It looks like it takes an artistic approach along with a good feel for relative positions to make it work correctly and make it look, well, pretty good.


Carlos

[Richard III]

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

If the poor fellow who has volunteered can have permission to leave them alone and try to clean up some geography around them, it might be doable.

That's me [:)] . The problem with that idea is the geography cannot be fixed and made any better because the map does not conform to any map projection - everything is distorted. As I mentioned, when I attempted to fix the geography graphics (the map you see) it only highlighted the distortion in target locations - especially on the coast. So it really needs to be done from the ground up.

What this entails is sizing & scaling an actual map of the area so that it works within the game's coordinate system. I'm pretty sure that the coordinate system is pixel based, although I could be wrong. In any case once you have a real map overlaid on the coordinate map it isn't particularily difficult to note that town "ABC" is located a coordinate X,Y.

I acknowledge that some "fudging" will be necessary to prevent target overlap in the map - that is standard stuff in wargaming.

One thing that might nix the whole idea is if some coordinate information is hard-coded, ie front line data, specific "invisible" stuff Harley has mentioned, or other features. I am not proposing to make more work for him!
[/quote]

In case folks don`t know, Nick has sent many years working with Scott Hamilton at HPS and creating Maps for them as well as scenarios and _legal_ editors for WIP, WIR and others. He can do it if it can be done .....[8D]

[Hard Sarge]

I was able to move the sites, but the names are HARD coded, so changing the names does not take

I like getting a Mammut up there

ORIGINAL: Derfel

As far as I can see then this is the cut off line.

This means that the Airfields of Aalborg and Frederikshavn are above the line, therefore they still have to be positioned aproximately where they are now.

[Hard Sarge]

I think our map is a little more angled then that one

so I added Rabe and lowered Lama, so it is at the top of the map

other then that, it looks like it matches up well

that Mammut will help, but...

[kaybayray]

WOW..... I guess I'm the Kid drooling over in the corner. It's all I can do to figure out how to put Aircraft up that have a chance of making it to the target and put bombs on the target with a chance of doing some damage other than scuffing up the parking lot.

I have thought a lot of what I might add to this thread but you guys are way outa my league. I will just stay in the corner drooling and trying to figure out how to shut the Luftwaffe down and pound the Third Riech into the stone age.... regardless of where the rivers are.

I have been playing this game for about 2 years and I never even noticed until this post that there were rivers in it. [&o]

Later,
KayBay

[Hard Sarge]

LOL

thanks

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray
...
I have been playing this game for about 2 years and I never even noticed until this post that there were rivers in it. [&o]
...

As shallow as this post may sound...aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha

Now that is funny!

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

WOW.....

...

I have been playing this game for about 2 years and I never even noticed until this post that there were rivers in it. [&o]

Later,
KayBay

Kaybay!!!

I think that puts this thread to bed, eh? [:D][:D][:D]

[pejsek]

In the BTR map, the location of Brux (AREA and FUEL) is wrong, the city is not south of Prague, but approximately half way between Prague and Chemnitz. The correct German name is Brüx. It was in Sudetenland and so a part of German Reich during the war, now it is in the Czech Republic and the name is Most. There is still a large chemical factory at the site of former synthetic fuel plant, located NW of the city.

[Hard Sarge]

have moved Brux and the fuel plant, so it is more inbetween Chemnitz and Prague

nothing I can do with the name

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

I have been playing this game for about 2 years and I never even noticed until this post that there were rivers in it. [&o]

Later,
KayBay

ROFLMAO

I think JC put it best the first time this was brought up (eight years ago? whatever)

(no quotes because I don't have the original, but this is close)
The map art is nothing but pretty wallpaper! Moving Schipol to the proper relationship with Amsterdam is important; moving the coastline isn't

BTW, glad to see that Schipol looks like it could be the Amsterdam airport.

[mikkey]

Hard Sarge, I should one wish regarding on the map.
It's in the center of Europe in Slovakia:
1013-Bratislava Werft PORT
1014-Bratislava AREA
2129-Pressburg AREA (but I don't know what is this because Pressburg is the german name of Bratislava during WWII)
659-I.G.Apollo OILR (Apollo refinery is on the lower side of Bratislava/Pressburg city area)
1164-Nova Dubnica ARM, but the name of city is only Dubnica (Nova Dubnica was established after WWII in 1951)
154-Piešťany PRI AF
156-Triduby PRI AF, but the name of airfield is Tri Duby
Thank you!

[Hard Sarge]

removed Bratislava

renamed Triduby

moved the rest

not sure what to name/rename Nova Dubnica ?

[mikkey]

Excellent, thank you for this adjustment Hard Sarge!
And please rename the name "Nova Dubnica" on "Dubnica". Full name of city is Dubnica nad Váhom but often are used abbreviated name Dubnica. Dubnica contains Skoda Armament factory (during WWII was attacked July 7. 1944, 20 a/c from 454.BG with 48.75 tons of bombs).

[NAVMAN]

Did anyone consider the usage, for the USAAF at least, of maps which somewhat approximate those actually used? From docs I have seen, the maps used during the general briefings were fairly nondescript, with certain areas marked as flak
concentrations, etc. Overall, however, they were pretty generic in detail. The
detailed maps were given to navigators and bombardiers in the specialized brieings.
If one takes this into acct, the map(s) would seem "serviceable" for the game.
Perhaps a second layer of mission planning, with a more detailed map, might
be done in a mod by those who have such expertise.
Just a thought for future consideration.

Thx.

[pejsek]

Blechhammer (AREA and 4 FUEL refienries) is on correct location in Campaign 43, but in Campaign 44, Oil Offensive I and II (sorry haven´t checked all scenarios) the location is incorrect.

[Hard Sarge]

I may not of changed it over, will look

[Hard Sarge]

thanks, my bad, Swift seen that and I made the changes in 43, then was waiting on feedback, and never made the change for 44, corrected

[Hard Sarge]

okay the Hammers in 44

[Hard Sarge]

I think I talked about the rework in the BallBearing area (in other words, with out looking up the name, I can't spell it)