AE Land and AI Issues [OUTDATED]

[afspret]

If this has been noted already, my apologies.

There seems to be a typo in the LCU name thats based at Hamilton, NZ. Its identified as the Nth Mounted Rifles Bn, and after doing some research I've found that it should probably be the Waikato Mounted Rifles Bn. It was renamed the 4th Mounted Rifles Bn sometime in 1942. According to Wiki, the unit was later posted overseas to Italy from 1943 to 1945.

[Iron Duke]

The Mounted Rifle Regiments
There were 9 mounted rifle regiments divided into the 3 militart districts

Northern Military District

3 Auckland East Coast Mounted Rifles (AECMR) in game = Auckland (Mtd) Rifl Rgt
4 Waikato Mounted Rifles (WMR) in game = Waikito (Mtd) Rifle Regt
11 North Auckland Mounted Rifles (NAMR) in game = Nth Auckland (Mtd) Regt


Central Military District

2 Queen Alexandra's Mounted Rifles (QAMR) in game = Q Alexandra's(Mtd) Rgt
6 Manawatu Mounted Rifles (MMR) in game = Manawatu's(Mtd) Rgt
9 Wellington East Coast Mounted Rifles (WECMR) in game = Well'n's East (Mtd) Rgt

Southern Military District

1 Canterbury Yeomanry Cavalry (CYC) in game = Canterbury Yeomanry Rgt
5 Otago Mounted Rifles (OMR) in game = Otago (Mtd) Rifles Rgt
10 Nelson Marlborough Mounted Rifles (NMMR) in game Nelson/Marlb. (Mtd) Rgt

In November 1941 they were redesignated as Light Armoured Fighting Vehicles (LAFV) Regiments ie 1 LAFV Rgt , 5 LAFV Rgt etc...

In November 1942? they were again reorganised into 5 armoured regiments and 4 Recce regiments and also regained there old names

In March 1944 they reorganised into 3 armoured regiments

AECMR, WMR and NAMR = 1st Armd
QAMR, MMR and WECMR = 2nd Armd
CYC, OMR and NMMR = 3rd Armd

[Andy Mac]

Interesting Iron Duke.
 
I have them starting as Mounted Rifles and going straight to Armoured/Recce regts
 
And then 3 of them to Armoured Regts
 
So I miss out the LAFV Regt phase do you have any data of the TOE of that bit of their evolution

[Iron Duke]

My Info came from 'New Zealand Armour In The Pacific 1939-45'
by Jeffrey Plowman and Malcolm Thomas
Kiwi Armour vol.2

States that the LAFV regiments organisation was some what ad-hoc and tended to depend on the availability of vehicles
No actual TOE's just a mention here and there in the text, or captions to photo's
Appears to be a mix of Stuart Hybrid tanks (M3 Hull with M3a1 Turret),LP2 Carriers , Beaverette's , motorcycle combinations , 8cwt and 15cwt Lorries.

Sorry but not much help.

cheers

[Andy Mac]

In that case I will probably leave it as is as they have a mix of mounted and vehicle borne in their TOE prior to the full mech conversion

[jcjordan]

Not sure if it's been mentioned or not but the 3rd Marine Div when formed is attached to West Coast but the individual rgts (the way it comes in) are attached to the Pacific Fleet. Shouldn't the div also be Pac Flt if formed? This is scen 1 so would probably be in most of the other scenarios as well

[mariandavid]

Andy: My source shows a 'typical' New Zealand LAFV regiment (essentially through 1940-41) as having four squadrons: A had local armoured cars (think the British 'Beaverette'), B and C Squadrons had Bren-gun carriers, D had a mortar troop and a recon troop - the latter with motor-cycles and m/c combinations. Stuart light tanks started to appear late in 1942 and were assigned to all nine. Of the nine, five became armoured and 4 became reconnaissance regiments on December 29th, 1942. The 4 recon regiments now had one squadron with 15 Stuarts, a 'armoured car' squadron with 19 Beaverettes and a motor squadron with 15 carriers, 4 3" mortar carriers, 3 Daimler scout cars and 6 White scout cars (really wheeled APC's). Oh and there were 9 more useless Beaverettes in the communications troop.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Note that the other five 'armoured' regiments had a totally different and much stronger organisation with 40 Stuart, 16 Valentine and 2 Matilda tanks.
 
Of course this is all peak strength and is only applicable for 1943 - but it would be nice if needed for the Allied 'Ironman'!

[Roko]

there are two 10th Mortar Bn at same location ( units 3590 and 4195 )
typo or duplication ?

[Barb]

IIRC I think one of them is part of a higher formation (brigade or division)

[Fishbed]

Small OOB typo: the famed Hyakutake is named Hyakatuke in my guad game. I guess his name got mistreated sometime in the middle of the development [;)] [:)]

[jcjordan]

Not sure if it's been mentioned or not but land unit 2694 has the wrong eng device. It shows a device 321 (which isn't active in this game) so shouldn't it be either 939 or 1108 instead? This is scen 1 patch 1 but would asssume it'd cover most of the other long full campaign scenarios as well

[P.Hausser]

Hi OOB staff.
 
Can somone explain why US Rifle Divisions has 273 Squads instead of 243 ?
 
 
 
as described in this thread:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2295030

[Andy Mac]

Joel would need to answer that one as its lost in the depths of OOB building for me - I suspect it was part of the comparative AV/Firepower/role discussion we had and we probably counted something as rilfes that are not counted in that way elsewhere

[jcjordan]

Kinda a wish list thing for the future but would it be possible to add when a land unit upgrades a device to the end of turn report like when you see a ship or air unit upgrade?

[Menser]

Beta patch
Royal Mounted Canadian Police Terrace Base force starts 1 hex from its base in all scenarios.

Not sure if its was before beta or not
Some TOE's list 0 units in all scenarioes ..... i.e USA 21st infantry regiment 105mm M3 Howitzer x0 , IJA road Construction company Aviation support x0. Are these placeholders or does the unit actally get some of these units over time?

[Andy Mac]

RCMP is an errort I will fix for offical patch thanks

0 devices isnt really an error the 0 zv support is an AI thing - the AI gets to expand av support if it needs it in some units

Basically the AI is a moron and occasionally some enterprising human player finds and sinks the engineer unit with av support that was ordered to garrison base x

sometimes base x is a CRITICAL base in how the AI moves air groups - now the AI is a moron - did I mention that...[:D][:D]

So if base X is critical but it has no av support because enterprising player has sunk the engineer unit destined for that base and the AI is a MORON and does not replace that unit because i havent told it to then that air group move fails...

So because I dont want the air group move to fail I give other units occasionally 0 av support it doesnt affect the player but the little moronic AI knows that if AV Support = 0 at base and base needs Av Support and unit with Av support = 0 is at base then add 1 Av Support to unit and voila the script is back in business because now th ebase has a point of Av Support.....

And that gents is why some units have av support = 0 in their TOE - because the Ai is a moron and I have to assume that sometimes you will - despite my best efforts - get that SAG in amongst the AI transports and cause a massacre

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

RCMP is an errort I will fix for offical patch thanks

0 devices isnt really an error the 0 zv support is an AI thing - the AI gets to expand av support if it needs it in some units

Basically the AI is a moron and occasionally some enterprising human player finds and sinks the engineer unit with av support that was ordered to garrison base x

sometimes base x is a CRITICAL base in how the AI moves air groups - now the AI is a moron - did I mention that...[:D][:D]

So if base X is critical but it has no av support because enterprising player has sunk the engineer unit destined for that base and the AI is a MORON and does not replace that unit because i havent told it to then that air group move fails...

So because I dont want the air group move to fail I give other units occasionally 0 av support it doesnt affect the player but the little moronic AI knows that if AV Support = 0 at base and base needs Av Support and unit with Av support = 0 is at base then add 1 Av Support to unit and voila the script is back in business because now th ebase has a point of Av Support.....

And that gents is why some units have av support = 0 in their TOE - because the Ai is a moron and I have to assume that sometimes you will - despite my best efforts - get that SAG in amongst the AI transports and cause a massacre

Yet again, thank you Andy for explaining things like this. It is interesting and helpful to know the " whys " relating to game design.

[Menser]

Kewl Andy,
But How does that explain the other "devices" like the Howitzers above?

[Gary D]

The 3 Chinese divisions that comprise the 66th Corps (28th,38th,39th) do not individually have a withdrawl date. However if you combine them into a Corps size unit, the Corps has a withdrawl date 450 odd days down the road. Seems it should work consistently, either they withdraw or they stay regardless of combining into a Corps?

The divisions start in Chunking and historically fought in Burma, ending up stranded in India I believe.

All the best!

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

Hi OOB staff.

Can somone explain why US Rifle Divisions has 273 Squads instead of 243 ?

AndyMac is correct -- we 'normalized' squads (for the US Army, 13-men) and counted every man with a rifle in a combat role. So, in addition to the division Recon battalion there are riflemen at platoon, company and battalion level that have to be counted -- some directly at headquarters, others in 'heavy weapon' or similar support platoons and companies.