Force Z with Indomitable

[Venividivici10044]

Another thread about PoW and Repulse started me thinking about what if possibilities. I decided to mod a scenario (working with the December 7th grand Campaign as a base). Essentially in its alpha form, the map has been truncated to only include Southern Indochina, the Malay peninsula, and the DEI. Indomitable is now available to Force Z. I've left the Sea Hurricanes as CAP, and sent the other squadrons on Naval Interdiction.

I plan to edit things further, but the general proposal goes as follows. Force Z should it survive the air strike will continue forward to attempt to disrupt the Japanese naval landings. I'm looking at a small scenario mod that will limit itself to the Japanese campaign to conquer Malaya, Singapore, and the DEI.

For now, I wanted to see how the AI (and perhaps a live player) reacts to Force Z with Indomitable added. A few final thoughts... I will look up, but what would be here standard escort group for Indomitable in 12/41? Is it reasonable to propose secrecy regarding Indomitable's presence given that Force Z was sent as an open warning to the Japanese? I'll have further thoughts as this idea progresses.

Obviously if this idea takes off; the possibilities are endless regarding other "could have been scenarios" of the Pacific War.

[Barb]

Indomitable, PoW, Repulse, 6 DDs

Indomitable air group:
800th Sq. FAA - 12x Fulmar II
880th Sq. FAA - 9x SeaHurricane IB
827th Sq. FAA - ?xAlbacore
831th Sq. FAA - ?xAlbacore

I wont put her anywhere near enemy bases with that fighter contingent [:D]

[DuckofTindalos]

Just one more sorely-needed RN ship sent to the bottom of the ocean by IJN bombers.

[Venividivici10044]

I've run this 5 times against the computer - eerily Force Z has only suffered one torpedo strike to Repulse. Force Z countered by putting a torpedo into a Japanese BB - not bad. [;)] That elite air wing from Indomitable must have sent quite a response to the Japanese bomber crews.[:D]

On a serious note; I'm curious to see if any change in history occurs. Two scenarios play out if they survive. The first involves interdicting the landings. The second - as part of Singapore's defense in the mode that they were intended. It does lead to some interesting case studies that can be modeled using the engine, albeit subject to that same engines limitations. In my next model...I will empty Pearl Harbor of the pacific fleet and put the fleet in the Philippines...what will KB do when this situation occurs?

[oldman45]

ORIGINAL: Venividivici10044

In my next model...I will empty Pearl Harbor of the pacific fleet and put the fleet in the Philippines...what will KB do when this situation occurs?

Destroy the pacific fleet [;)]

[Venividivici10044]

Ok...its alternate history...but seriously what would KB do if they found Pearl Harbor empty?

[oldman45]

Well, the smart thing would be to destroy the A/C, tank farm and ship yard. Then head home and hope that their scouts find the pacific fleet.

[sven6345789]

probably wouldn't attack PH since the japanese would have been aware of such a move

[bklooste]

ORIGINAL: Venividivici10044

Ok...its alternate history...but seriously what would KB do if they found Pearl Harbor empty?

Her orders were to look for the fleet and if not found return home.. I would expect an abort of the other landings at this stage as pre plan.

[mariandavid]

There are a whole set of statistics from the Med about the effect on single-type bombers (ie either dive or torpedo) without fighter protection of attacking a fleet with adequate (ie pure fighter - not just Fulmer or Skua) protection. The balance is that they had a serious impact on the hit rate. I suspect that would be the case if an RN carrier had been with Force Z as intended. Obviously that would shift if the TF moved within Zero range - though note that RN air search radar (more accurately its practical usage in terms of fighter direction) was in advance of that of the USN in 1941. Things changed obviously in the next six months.

[Venividivici10044]

during the daylight hours of the 8th of December, Force Z is attacked several times by Japanese LBA; Indomitable's planes providing CAP devastate the raiders with no losses...Force Z emboldened continues on its way to disrupt the Kota Bharu landings....a naval force is intercepted....


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 08, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kota Bharu at 51,75, Range 9,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna, Shell hits 8, on fire
CA Takao, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 1
CL Jintsu
DD Asashio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Oshio, Shell hits 1
DD Michishio
DD Arashio
DD Akatsuki
DD Hibiki, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 12, on fire
BC Repulse, Shell hits 2
DD Vampire
DD Tenedos, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Electra
DD Express, Shell hits 1



Improved night sighting under 85% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 85% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 9,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 9,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CV Indomitable at 9,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 9,000 yards
CA Atago engages CV Indomitable at 9,000 yards
CA Takao engages CV Indomitable at 9,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages CV Indomitable at 9,000 yards
DD Michishio engages CV Indomitable at 9,000 yards
DD Oshio engages CV Indomitable at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages CV Indomitable at 2,000 yards
BB Kongo engages CV Indomitable at 2,000 yards
BC Repulse engages BB Haruna at 2,000 yards
CA Takao engages CV Indomitable at 2,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CV Indomitable at 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Tenedos at 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Akatsuki at 2,000 yards
DD Arashio engages CV Indomitable at 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Oshio at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages CV Indomitable at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CV Indomitable at 4,000 yards
BB Kongo engages BB Prince of Wales at 4,000 yards
BC Repulse engages BB Haruna at 4,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Express at 4,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CV Indomitable at 4,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Tenedos at 4,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Oshio at 4,000 yards
DD Arashio engages CV Indomitable at 4,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Asashio at 4,000 yards
CV Indomitable sunk by DD Akatsuki at 4,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BB Prince of Wales at 4,000 yards
BC Repulse engages BB Haruna at 4,000 yards
CA Takao engages DD Express at 4,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Electra at 4,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Hibiki at 4,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Akatsuki at 4,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Electra at 4,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Michishio at 4,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Asashio at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 6,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BC Repulse at 6,000 yards
CA Atago engages BB Prince of Wales at 6,000 yards
CA Takao engages BB Prince of Wales at 6,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Tenedos at 6,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Hibiki at 6,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Akatsuki at 6,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Express at 6,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Oshio at 6,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Asashio at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 11,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BC Repulse at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages BB Prince of Wales at 11,000 yards
CA Takao engages BB Prince of Wales at 11,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Hibiki at 11,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Asashio at 11,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages DD Tenedos at 11,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Arashio at 11,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Tenedos at 11,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Oshio at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...


Indomitable riddled by naval gunfire sinks beneath the waves...Force Z withdraws back to Singapore...the Japanese landings have not been disrupted.

[oldman45]

In my game it would have been nice when the POW and Repulse ran into the Kaga they did that much damage to her......

[Venividivici10044]

I have found that the engine works very well with "What If..." scenarios. I've always found the story of Force Z fascinating...viewed from a modern perspective one would wonder why would they do something that insane...viewed from the perspective of the times from the Battleship Queen of the Seas thinker, this would remain a logical venture.