current and Future Support Policy

[msvknight]

As someone who has had 20 odd years of bugs mostly crashing the entire game, any bug that merely inconveniences my operations must be the responsibility of idiot so-and-so who didn't maintain the guns properly.

Moron B who sent my assault troops on R&R just when they were supposed to be attacking Guadalcanal.

And as for the fool who didn't keep up with the fuel......

Well that was probably my fault, but when I rectify the situation, I'll get a medal.

[WW2'er]

Oh, no, WW2'er. Eric's right on the money here. Many's the time I have decried, in these forums, the "let's fix it because we ain't happy with how our stuff performs" postulation. I don't blame Matrix or 2by3 for the slow disintegration of a beautiful idea and its realization. But I ask that you look back at UV as it first was. How much better is it now as a result of all the screwing around with it? V. 1.30, in my estimation, is a retreat, not an advance, from the original.

Really, Pasternakski? You are welcome to your own opinion, but I really think UV is a lot better now that it was at version 1.0. Take some time and review the list of fixes and additions that have taken place with every update. You really don't think any of these things have made the game better than it was when it first came out?

Of course, now 1.40 has been released. Reading the list of improvements, I am excited to get home, download it, install it, and continue my latest game. UV is a blast and I'm glad they keep improving it, even knowing that the process will introduce a few new problems each time. That's just inevitable with life itself!

[Wolfar100]

I have been wargaming since 1981 and back then you could not BITCH about a game like you can now days thanks to the internet.

Give me a break! You bashers push your views on everyone else that thinks Matrix is doing a fantastic job.

Why don't you go help finsh bashing Talonsoft like the rest of the idiots over there and help in a faster closing down of ANOUTHER once outstanding devolper.

Put your problems and grips where they belong in the BUG form!

Yes I have been a beta tester as well for MANY differnt games. So I know what the proper procedure is.

Again as some one said "Get a LIFE" and try and do your bug reporting in the proper place.

Salute
Wolfar

[Black Cat]

Originally posted by Kid
As a Beta Tester I could get in hot water for this, but I will tell you the "Load Troops Only" option is being tested right now along with many others. I tell you this because it is a new feature that was asked for by the players and Matrix did not have to add it in. I would like to add that when we are testing a patch we are focusing in on the patch items and not testing every aspect of the game all over again. That would not be practical for anyone, so sometimes we do not catch collateral damage.

Thanks very much for this. ( even if it doesn`t make the cut it`s much appreciated )

[Black Cat]

Let this go guys, there never was, nor never will be another Game Software Company that has this level of support for a product, UV in this case, at this stage in it`s " life".

I mean not just Bug Fixes, but major enhancements.

It`s counterproductive to attack them in that it hurts the Company in terms of future sales, as well as really pisses off the Staff guys , many of who are hardworking nonpaid testers.

Their bandwith, and your time, is far better used in helping Newbies get into the Game and making reasoned, mature and POLITE cases for future changes.

[ADavidB]

Man, talk about getting a thread hijacked...

Minna-san, ( "everyone" )

- Let's all take a deep breath and enjoy the fact that we are going into a late summer weekend and we have an enjoyable, well-supported game to play if we want to come indoors.

Maybe UV "ain't perfect", but it's lightyears better than what we had available before it came out.

Dewa mata -

Dave Baranyi

[dpstafford]

Originally posted by ADavidB Maybe UV "ain't perfect", but it's lightyears better than what we had available before it came out.

Nailed it. I just hope that my weenie PBEM opponents stick close to their 'puters for the weekend. Traveling is for the UV impaired.

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marc Schwanebeck
Well Eric, I wonder if you freak out about the typos in your StarTrek books the same way . Our playtester and the playtest coordination do a hell of a job I can assure you.

You got Kid´s answer wrong, as it was not very "in detail". All of our playtesters play PBEM games against each others and also with people outside of Matrix, so despite the fact they focus on special issues (what only makes sense when playtesting), they also test the whole game itself while playing, like you do .

Unfortunatly you overlook things in a game as of this scale. Some people realize "bugs" that others overlook and also the other way around. We found bugs that maybe you would have never realized. I really love hearing "When the hell is the patch released" and then right after release "You screwed it up", motivates a lot.

Marc,
As a customer who spends his hard-earned money I expect a good product. It just doesn't seem to happen in this hobby, but I've resigned myself to that. I do get a bit irritated at typos in my Star Trek books, but if there's only one or two it's no big deal. when there are a slew of them I do complain as I did recently to one author who wrote 3 Star Trek books that were very shoddily written.

I do realize that it takes a lot of effort for beta testing these games and there are a lot of things to look at. I am not one of those who are always whining for the next patch to be released right away, I'd rather be patient and wait for a good patch. Maybe 2by3 and Matrix ought to be more patient in putting out the patches so that they do get proper testing. I see 1.40 is out already and I wonder what now is messed up that wasn't before. I'll download it and try it out as I wanted to start a game as the USN and the 1.30 patch really put a halt in that desire after a weekend of playing and discovering a fatal US CA bug.

I also don't always whine about the game. If you bother to check the "There's no Transport Bug" post in the bug repsorts section you'll see I stuck up for the game and pointed out to some who were complaining about a possible game bug that it was really just players not understanding how much capacity is needed to transport troops.

If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen and find some other endeavor that isn't so stressful and demanding. Otherwise if you're going to be part of putting out half-baked products then expect criticism.
Eric Larsen

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo
Eric,

Fair go mate!!!!!!!!

If your enjoyment of the game is so heavily wedded to a perfect delivery of every change, why don't you do something practical, like volunteer your enormous experience as a beta tester to Matrix. It would be a lot more beneficial to everyone than your continuous attacks on Matrix every time you suspect there's a bug in the game, an error in the manual or a mistake in a patch.
I know you're trying to improve things by pointing out what you think is wrong but surely it doesn't have to always be accompanied by outrage and ridicule.

I think Matrix are the best wargame company in the universe!
P.S. Matrix, is there any plans to implement a reward scheme (ie gift voucher) for someone who makes the most company supportive post?

Drongo,
This is the only industry that puts out half-baked, shoddy, defective products and gets away with it as the standard way of doing business. We sure wouldn't put up with this kind of shoddy work in our cars now would we?

I have better things to do with my time than beta test games anymore. I've put in my time in hell and don't feel like doing it further officially. I know I still have to do it whenever I buy a new game. I'm sorry if sometimes I get a little testy but after playing a weekend and finding such a huge, game-stopping bug as the US CA snafu in the 1.30 patch then yeah I have a right to be pissed off and to make my feelings known. Otherwise these half-baked shoddy patches will just be the standard we'll get all the time.

Matrix doesn't have enough track record yet to be regarded as "the best wargame company". Maybe after a few years they'll get there but they've got a ways to go to prove themselves. I guess simple things amuse simple minds. Save your praise for when they do earn the award, don't give it to them before they earn it!
Eric Larsen

[siRkid]

Originally posted by EricLarsen
Drongo,
This is the only industry that puts out half-baked, shoddy, defective products and gets away with it as the standard way of doing business. We sure wouldn't put up with this kind of shoddy work in our cars now would we?

[/B]

I see you don't buy Microsoft products. Twenty-two CRITICAL patches to Window XP and counting.

[Drongo]

Posted by EricLarsen

I guess simple things amuse simple minds. Save your praise for when they do earn the award, don't give it to them before they earn it!

Depends on whether there's a gift voucher involved.

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kid


I see you don't buy Microsoft products. Twenty-two CRITICAL patches to Window XP and counting.

Kid,
Unfortunately I do buy MS products, but not very often. I'm still stuck on Windows 98SE because the later Windows products were so bug-riddled and were more window dressing of changing screen graphics than any true engine upgrade. I sure wish there was a software lemon law!
Eric Larsen

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo
Posted by EricLarsen


Depends on whether there's a gift voucher involved.

Drongo,
I guess if they ever do give out game vouchers for being a company patsy then you'll be the first one to get one. Matrix really isn't any better, or worse than any other game company I've seen come down the pike. Thay tend to make the same mistakes their predecessors have; a pity that they don't learn from what others did wrong.

I did work for them on the War in Russia project and that was so screwed up because Matrix basically just wanted the exposure of fixing two old programs than actually getting their hands dirty doing the dastardly deed. The programmer, Arnaud, was great to work with. But Matrix basically assembled a group to do the job with absolutely no stated goal or checking on the progress. They just ignored the project while touting how they were fixing the old programs. They wanted the glamor without doing the work. And that is why I will never, ever get involved with Matrix again as far as beta testing goes.
Eric Larsen

[tohoku]

Originally posted by WW2'er
Geez, Eric.

Get a life man. If the ship bug is so "Earth Shattering" to you as you write about, please do something a little more exciting than reading Star Trek books.

I thought it was a reasonable post. I'd be interested to know if Matrix run a proper statistical beta test series across the game or simply give the game out to various volunteers and ask them to focus on what Matrix hopes it's fixed.




tohoku
YMMV

[Drongo]

Posted by EricLarson

I guess if they ever do give out game vouchers for being a company patsy then you'll be the first one to get one.

Good to know I'm on the right track. Maybe it'll help cover the cost of WitP.

Patsy......now there's a good forum name.

Cheers Eric.

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo
Posted by EricLarsen

Good to know I'm on the right track. Maybe it'll help cover the cost of WitP.

Cheers Eric.

Drongo,
Actually, in the long run just saving your money to buy the game is the cheapest way to go. I found that getting a free game for beta testing just wasn't worth it to get an early look and play on a game. I put in way too many hours beta testing for the value of the game received. But it's always good to squeak up when you do or don't like things so the powers that be know what their customers are thinking.

Cheers Drongo!
(and bottoms up on a pint of your favorite ale!)

Eric Larsen

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WW2'er
Geez, Eric.

Get a life man. If the ship bug is so "Earth Shattering" to you as you write about, please do something a little more exciting than reading Star Trek books.

As for this patch, they made a mistake and it caused you to....HORROR OF HORRORS...wait a couple weeks to start a new scenario so one class of ships will be perfect. Well that's life. You act like they are so terrible and how could they ever let such a thing happen! Chill out!!

WW2'er,
I think you're the one who needs the chill pill. The US CA bug wasn't earth shattering, but it was game stopping and that just plain isn't right. They made a mistake and they deserve to hear about it. It's my right as a customer!

I happen to have more interests than just wargaming and Star Trek and I have a fine life already thank you.
Eric Larsen

[EricLarsen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
Hey I like Star Trek <g>

There was a data error with us coping files and of course we would NEVER release a patch with a know error. Do you really think we would work this hard and make this many patches unless we wanted to support our customers.


David

David,
Another fellow trekkie, hooray!:)

Thanks for weighing in on this and allaying any fears about releasing a known defective patch. I'm glad you're putting out good wargames and do work hard to earn our trust and our money. I know one of the pratfalls at Talonsoft that I disagreed with when I was a beta tester was the limited beta testing patches got before they got puked out the door. I would hope that this incident will cause you to think more about slowing down initial patches to allow for a little more thorough beta testing. I know I found some really bad new bugs before a patch's release and Talonsoft still was hell bent to release the patch as soon as possible before the weekend, not as good as possible which was what should have been the policy. I for one as a customer would rather have patches come out a little more slowly and a little better tested than to have them come out rapid fire and still full of problems including new ones.
Eric Larsen

[WW2'er]

Eric,

No patch is "game stopping". You just revert back to the previous version and keep playing. It's obvious that your previous experience with Talonsoft biased you prior to hearing from David on the issue.

All I was trying to point out was a mistake that let out a patch with a serious error in it was not a reason to condemn Matrix forever as a terrible company that didn't give a you-know-what about quality.

Now let's just put this to rest and get back to playing a great wargame....Uncommon Valor!