AXIS Allied Troops

[Hohenlohe]

Which Axis allied forces will arrive during the game?? I know that were Romanians, Hungarians,Italians, Slovaks, Finns and the famous spanish "Divison Azul", but how many units of these kind will appear and in which time frame...
Is it possible to get a certain timeframe for the appearance of the minor Axis forces??

greetings

Hohenlohe

[PyleDriver]

Yes there all in the game and arrive on the historical timetable...

[Terminus]

Don't forget the Croats. You get them too.

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Don't forget the Croats. You get them too.

Actually the Croatians are not a separate nationality in the game. You get the 369th Infantry regiment (later upgraded to a division) which was primarily composed of Croatian soldiers but in game terms it's just another German unit. The same is true for the Spanish Blue division.

[Terminus]

I know, but still...

[Skanvak]

Do we get the Ukrenian free army? The one from Bandera, it fought the Soviet until 1950. It was not german controlled, but german supported near the end.

[PyleDriver]

No, were not bringing those in...

[Terminus]

Not bloody likely.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Not bloody likely.

What about adding fantasy OPTION and include Terminus Brigade(s) for each side.

A unit of hard charging Danes who sometimes drink too much wine, oversleep, and thus miss roll-call...

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Not bloody likely.

What about adding fantasy OPTION and include Terminus Brigade(s) for each side.

A unit of hard charging Danes who sometimes drink too much wine, oversleep, and thus miss roll-call...

Ummm ... You mean the Vikings? [&:] Skoll!

[ComradeP]

What about Cossack units or other units from the Soviet Union fighting for the Axis? Is there a relation between captured Soviet territory, and the number of formerly Soviet citizens that fight for the Axis?

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

What about Cossack units or other units from the Soviet Union fighting for the Axis? Is there a relation between captured Soviet territory, and the number of formerly Soviet citizens that fight for the Axis?

We haven't factored that in, other than in the overall manpower formulas for the German player, although I've had it in the back of my mind. The partisan war has been simplified, and a lot of the units that took part in garrison and police duty are not included in the game. It does appear that a lot of the Axis support troops were from the Soviet Union, but other than adjusting the manpower formulas for the Axis to correctly account for the manpower available to the Axis, I don't think we're going to specifically single out Soviet manpower fighting for the Axis.

[ComradeP]

Fair enough. The majority of the ~ 1 million Soviet Hiwi's were not organized into units that would appear on the map with the current scale and including every single security unit just for historical accuracy would inflate the Axis OOB with lots of units with a truly minimal combat value. As (anti-)partisan warfare is already simplified and to a degree abstracted, there would also be little need for those units.

The reason I mentioned Cossacks was that there were two Cossack divisions which operated as divisions and were also equipped as such. Helmuth von Pannwitz's 1. Kosaken Kavallerie Division, including Jungschultz's cossacks and 2. Kosaken Kavallerie Division commanded by Hans-Joachim von Schultz. As part of Yugoslavia is on the map, I was wondering whether they would appear late in the game.

Reading about all the non-German/non-European units the Germans used all over Europe is almost enough to make your head spin. For an in theory and largely in practice racist regime, the Germans employed vast numbers of non-Europeans, from Normandy to the Balkans to the Eastern Front.

[Joel Billings]

Just to be clear, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria are on the map, but they become "exclusion zones" which neither play may enter once the Soviets get up to their borders. We didn't want to have to take the extra time to simulate the situation is Yugoslavia, which is a game in itself.

[ComradeP]

Up to that point of direct Soviet intervention, what can the Axis player do in Yugoslavia? The 1st Cossack division would be there prior well over a year prior to the arrival of the Soviets at Yugoslavian borders, but if the war in Yugoslavia is mostly abstracted, it would be pretty pointless to include it.

Judging by your comment on how the war in Yugoslavia would basically be a game in itself, which I agree with, is the war between the Axis and local forces abstracted as some sort of nation-wide garrison requirement where the Axis have to keep a certain number of forces in the area? According to the Alpha map, there are Italian units in Yugoslavia so I'm assuming that Yugoslavia has some influence on the way the Axis have to fight the war.

[Joel Billings]

Those units are freed up in the early war if the Soviets move into Rumania and Hungary, but otherwise eventually go away. Same for some of the Hungarian units at start. Really we do not simulate the Yugoslavia actions, and we could have easily left that part of the map out of the game (but we didn't know we would decide this 9 years ago when we started on the project).

[vinnie71]

So basically Hiwis would be factored in as additional manpower? Maybe a few extaa support troops as well? I'm asking because the bulk of Hiwis were actually employed in support roles rather than front liners.
 
As for the Cossacks these could also become another excellent source of trained manpower. They were definitaly hostile to the Soviet Union and rallied to the Germans in '42 during the initial advances in summer. Besides the divisions mentioned above, there were several additional units that varied in size and composition made up of Cossacks.
 
Am I getting this right? So Hungarians and Roumanians would have a mobile element (ie those forces sent up front+any other forces that could be sent during the war) and a (sort of) homeguard?
 
Lastly did I read right? the Croatians will get upgraded from the 369th regiment to a division? would this happen on the map or is the regiment withrawn and respawned as a division? Could this happen to other units? (I had in mind ex Grossdeutschland and Liebstandarte). BTW will there be the Slovaks in game? (probably as part of the German Army)
 

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

So basically Hiwis would be factored in as additional manpower? Maybe a few extaa support troops as well? I'm asking because the bulk of Hiwis were actually employed in support roles rather than front liners.

As for the Cossacks these could also become another excellent source of trained manpower. They were definitaly hostile to the Soviet Union and rallied to the Germans in '42 during the initial advances in summer. Besides the divisions mentioned above, there were several additional units that varied in size and composition made up of Cossacks.

There are no hiwis or cossack units in the game.

Am I getting this right? So Hungarians and Roumanians would have a mobile element (ie those forces sent up front+any other forces that could be sent during the war) and a (sort of) homeguard?

Basically yes.

Lastly did I read right? the Croatians will get upgraded from the 369th regiment to a division? would this happen on the map or is the regiment withrawn and respawned as a division? Could this happen to other units? (I had in mind ex Grossdeutschland and Liebstandarte). BTW will there be the Slovaks in game? (probably as part of the German Army)

Some units withdraw and later return with a different TOE and others, like the 369th, are upgraded on the map. The Slovaks are in the game as a separate nationality with their own units.

[vinnie71]

Lovely! Pity about the Cossacks - Pannawitz and Jungshultz units (originally regiments attached to the 16 PG Division and later in anti partisan raids) would have added flavour.

BTW I may not have explained myself well. When I said an excellent source of trained manpower I was thinking more in a sense of replacements. Since most Hiwis actually served within German units (except for a few battalions out west and therefore out of the purview of this game) I was thinking of say after a certain period, the amount of replacements for infantry, cavalry (if they are included seperately) and especially support units could increase to reflect the influx of Hiwis in German units. This was what I was thinking, rather than have entire new units made of Hiwis.

Also how will equipment hand me downs be worked out? Ex both the Hungarian and Rumanian armoured forces actually used dumped German equipment. Would this be factored in game as a seperate production line or maybe a one time influx? (I'm thinking in terms of WITP)

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

BTW I may not have explained myself well. When I said an excellent source of trained manpower I was thinking more in a sense of replacements. Since most Hiwis actually served within German units (except for a few battalions out west and therefore out of the purview of this game) I was thinking of say after a certain period, the amount of replacements for infantry, cavalry (if they are included seperately) and especially support units could increase to reflect the influx of Hiwis in German units. This was what I was thinking, rather than have entire new units made of Hiwis.

Also how will equipment hand me downs be worked out? Ex both the Hungarian and Rumanian armoured forces actually used dumped German equipment. Would this be factored in game as a seperate production line or maybe a one time influx? (I'm thinking in terms of WITP)

Currently nothing in the rules about the Germans employing manpower from occupied territory but that may change.

Transfers of German equipment (AFVs & aircraft) to Axis Allies is in the game.