Subs - underwater BBs

[rtrapasso]

Originally posted by John Lansford


BTW, the British developed aerial harpoons for their ASW planes. They were 5" rockets with solid steel warheads on them. The aircraft fired them in volleys at a sub, puncturing its hull and keeping it on the surface. I don't know if the USN ever used them but they were effective, since planes that couldn't carry anything else now had a useful ASW weapon.

??? Effective? Useful? The Brits fielded lots of strange rocket devices during the war - like the AA rockets on the Hood. Mostly, they caused more problems than they solved. This is the first I had heard of these - what were they called? Are there any reports of these actually HITTING and actually causing significant confirmed damage to a U-boat? I would think that any kind of explosive warhead would be much more useful (and lighter) than solid steel. Maybe they were mainly useful in keeping up the morale of the AC crews.

Bob T.

[Joel Billings]

Hits on subs are usually "near misses" so please keep this in mind. The durability rating is used differently for subs, representing the max dive depth, so you cannot compare it directly to the way durability is handled for surface ships. Currently, the one change we are making in patch 1.41 is to reduce IJN ASW capability as it appears to be too good. You must keep in mind that sinking subs during this campaign was a very rare event. There are enough reports of players sinking lots of subs, so we do not believe the game needs a change. Obviously, you're results may vary.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Originally posted by Joel Billings
Hits on subs are usually "near misses" so please keep this in mind. The durability rating is used differently for subs, representing the max dive depth, so you cannot compare it directly to the way durability is handled for surface ships. Currently, the one change we are making in patch 1.41 is to reduce IJN ASW capability as it appears to be too good. You must keep in mind that sinking subs during this campaign was a very rare event. There are enough reports of players sinking lots of subs, so we do not believe the game needs a change. Obviously, you're results may vary.

I play mostly as IJN, and spent hundereds of hours, and thousands of turns playing this game. All I sank is a single US sub, once. And in one of my games as US one of my subs was sunk. Obviously, I don't think IJN ASW capability is "too good". I may be one extreme example, but still...

PS. While we're at it, can you give us hints as to what else is going to be covered with 1.41

O.

[Top Cat]

I also have had weird experiences regarding subs.

I've nearly completed scenario #19 against Ai oponent. No aircraft has sunk or even caused moderate damage in the entire game despite countless attacks. All subs must have had radar and dived before aircraft attacked!

Also played 2 weeks of the same scenario in PBEM game as the Japs.

The result :

American subs sink :
3 transports (expected),
2 destroyers
5 sub chasers
1 AV

also non fatal hits :
2 hits on a cruiser
5 or 6 other hits on transports (they're slow so thats OK)

plus several near misses on a couple of CV's with escorts....

Ninety percent of this occured in the shallow waters of Rabaul's port where I have 3 squadrons on ASW duties @ 1000ft, all the sub chasers (those still floating) in dedicated ASW packs and some destroyers also on patrol.

At this rate the subs. will completely wipe my ASW capable ships about half way through the game!

Now I can handle being unlucky and have a sub take out a big fast, juicy target like a CV, BB CA etc, because it's worth the risk. But, I don't think subs would decide to take on the entire ASW fleet of opposing navy, they'd be crucified in short order.

Still like to point out this is the best "flat top" style game ever made!

Top Cat

[Yamamoto]

After Carriers, my favorite ships to play with are subs. I’m disappointed to hear that IJN ASW is being reduced. What exactly is being reduced, the ‘to-hit’ chance for their ASW weapons, an across the board minus, or something else?

I find it strange since this thread is equating subs with battleships that the proposed solution is to reduce the Japanese’s ASW. I mostly use my subs to lay mines in enemy ports.

Yamamoto

[John Lansford]

The "harpoons" the RN used were put on Swordfish torpedo bombers operating off of carriers in the Mediterreanean. There was at least one record of a U-boat being disabled by these devices. I suspect that explosive warheads weren't used because they weren't available, or the solid steel ones were lighter so the Swordfish could carry more of them.