Changing/moding BF TOEs

[Buck Beach]

I like things in the game to be as close as possible to the "way it was" historically. I also enjoy tweaking things to try to achieve this, solely my own use.

I fully understand why many of the Allied BF TOE's (Japan ??) include devices are not historically located and/or available at the beginning of the war. What I would like to know is what would be the drawbacks to creating a workaround using the disabled function for each device I wish to change.

An example, various BFs reflect active 40mm Bofors and/or 20mm Oerlikon AA devices. I read where the 1st twin 40mm was not produced until Jan 1942 and not placed on a ship until June 22, 1942 (on the Wyoming AG-17) and where the U.S. had only a total of 379 of the 20mm produced as of 12/7/1941. Can I disable these to show none are active and rebuild them later, or would this cause me other problems in some way?

As a side question, does anyone have any idea what in game units/ships should have these 379 active 20mm?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I like things in the game to be as close as possible to the "way it was" historically. I also enjoy tweaking things to try to achieve this, solely my own use.

I fully understand why many of the Allied BF TOE's (Japan ??) include devices are not historically located and/or available at the beginning of the war. What I would like to know is what would be the drawbacks to creating a workaround using the disabled function for each device I wish to change.

An example, various BFs reflect active 40mm Bofors and/or 20mm Oerlikon AA devices. I read where the 1st twin 40mm was not produced until Jan 1942 and not placed on a ship until June 22, 1942 (on the Wyoming AG-17) and where the U.S. had only a total of 379 of the 20mm produced as of 12/7/1941. Can I disable these to show none are active and rebuild them later, or would this cause me other problems in some way?

As a side question, does anyone have any idea what in game units/ships should have these 379 active 20mm?

There are very significant differences between Wpn entries for LCUs and Ships. What works for one, don't work for the other. Disablement might work ok for the LCUs, but won't work for Ships. For Ships, you are just gonna have to add more upgrade schedules - that's the only way I can think of for doing what you want.

For BF LCUs, you will have to make a new set of Devices for the "land" 40mm and 20mm AA Guns (as you read further, you will understand why the Ship versions won't work). These Devices "must" have the introduction date you wish. That's half the battle, but here's where it gets wierd.

You "must" define your desired BF TOE in the TOE space (Allied TO&E’s must be located in slots 2350-2899) and have the 20s and 40s fully fleshed out. Then you "must" reference this TOE, in the TOE ID field, when you set up your desired BFs. The 20s and 40s of the desired BFs can then have Num set to "0", and they won't get populated till the intro date of the Device. After that, all is cool.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I like things in the game to be as close as possible to the "way it was" historically. I also enjoy tweaking things to try to achieve this, solely my own use.

I fully understand why many of the Allied BF TOE's (Japan ??) include devices are not historically located and/or available at the beginning of the war. What I would like to know is what would be the drawbacks to creating a workaround using the disabled function for each device I wish to change.

An example, various BFs reflect active 40mm Bofors and/or 20mm Oerlikon AA devices. I read where the 1st twin 40mm was not produced until Jan 1942 and not placed on a ship until June 22, 1942 (on the Wyoming AG-17) and where the U.S. had only a total of 379 of the 20mm produced as of 12/7/1941. Can I disable these to show none are active and rebuild them later, or would this cause me other problems in some way?

As a side question, does anyone have any idea what in game units/ships should have these 379 active 20mm?

There are very significant differences between Wpn entries for LCUs and Ships. What works for one, don't work for the other. Disablement might work ok for the LCUs, but won't work for Ships. For Ships, you are just gonna have to add more upgrade schedules - that's the only way I can think of for doing what you want.

For BF LCUs, you will have to make a new set of Devices for the "land" 40mm and 20mm AA Guns (as you read further, you will understand why the Ship versions won't work). These Devices "must" have the introduction date you wish. That's half the battle, but here's where it gets wierd.

You "must" define your desired BF TOE in the TOE space (Allied TO&E’s must be located in slots 2350-2899) and have the 20s and 40s fully fleshed out. Then you "must" reference this TOE, in the TOE ID field, when you set up your desired BFs. The 20s and 40s of the desired BFs can then have Num set to "0", and they won't get populated till the intro date of the Device. After that, all is cool.

Thanks JWE. I had figured out the mechanics of the ship upgrades. I confess I hadn't thought about the difference between the land and shipboard AA weapons (duh).

As far as the LCU BFs still fuzzy. Let's say my BF has a 2402 TOE and is referenced properly by the unit 5005 105th USN BF at Juneau as in Scenario #1. It show no 40mm Bofors whereas the TOE has 4. I get (I think) that the the unit as been adjusted to zero out the TOEs 40mms. Now let's take unit 5006 106th USN BF (with the same TOE 2402). It reflects it has 4 active 40mm Bufors. Can I/should I, force/adjust the unit's numbers to 4 disabled Bufors (to be rebuilt through supply and replacements, or are you suggesting that I should create another TOE in fields 2350 through 2899 to effect this type of change.

I hope I haven't confused the issue further.

While I have your ear and this may be obvious, but, I see where the 2402 upgrades to 2403 (1945). Under 2402 Juneau and Sitka have adjusted Naval Support of 25 and 50 respectively. The upgraded 2403 shows the Naval Support increases to 200. Does this upgrade reset the units 105 & 106 (as well as others in the game) to the 200 level?

Buck

Where can I obtain information on the BF TOEs for bases at the beginning of the war?

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

While I have your ear and this may be obvious, but, I see where the 2402 upgrades to 2403 (1945). Under 2402 Juneau and Sitka have adjusted Naval Support of 25 and 50 respectively. The upgraded 2403 shows the Naval Support increases to 200. Does this upgrade reset the units 105 & 106 (as well as others in the game) to the 200 level?

Buck,

Don't confuse the starting strength with the TOE. Juneau starts with 25 naval support, and Sitka with 50, but the TOE [#2402] strength for both is 100 naval support squads. If you put the BFs to "replacements allowed" they will eventually fill out to 100 naval support squads. In 1945, the Naval Base Forces upgrade to TOE #2403. If you turn replacements off, they won't change. But if you allow replacements the base forces will eventually expand to the 200 level, if you have enough supply, etc. etc.

Where can I obtain information on the BF TOEs for bases at the beginning of the war?

If you are asking where to find information on the actual, historical strength of each BF at the beginning of the war, I don't know. I couldn't find anything even remotely comprehensive. The in-game units, for all nationalities, are abstractions.

The methodology I used for the standard Naval BF TOE includes the equivalent of a company of Marines, a company of engineers, a 2-gun coastal defense battery/section, and 12 AA guns (again, about 1/3rd of a battalion). In stock, the "garrison" portion of the BF was much larger -- so much so that most of the BF support was used by its own garrison! We've corrected that miscue.

[Blackhorse]

As far as the LCU BFs still fuzzy. Let's say my BF has a 2402 TOE and is referenced properly by the unit 5005 105th USN BF at Juneau as in Scenario #1. It show no 40mm Bofors whereas the TOE has 4. I get (I think) that the the unit as been adjusted to zero out the TOEs 40mms. Now let's take unit 5006 106th USN BF (with the same TOE 2402). It reflects it has 4 active 40mm Bufors. Can I/should I, force/adjust the unit's numbers to 4 disabled Bufors (to be rebuilt through supply and replacements, or are you suggesting that I should create another TOE in fields 2350 through 2899 to effect this type of change.

To achieve the same effect, you might consider leaving the TOE the way it is. [Weapon Slot 3 = x4 1132 40mm Bofors].

In the at-start BF units, change the weapon in Slot 3 to either 1132 x0, or to another AA weapon (37mm, or 0.5 Browning).

In the device field, set the production for Bofors to begin in 1/42 -- or whenever you want.

As Bofors become available through production, they will fill out Slot 3, or replace the non-TOE weapon in that slot -- as long as the BF is set to "replacements allowed."

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

As far as the LCU BFs still fuzzy. Let's say my BF has a 2402 TOE and is referenced properly by the unit 5005 105th USN BF at Juneau as in Scenario #1. It show no 40mm Bofors whereas the TOE has 4. I get (I think) that the the unit as been adjusted to zero out the TOEs 40mms. Now let's take unit 5006 106th USN BF (with the same TOE 2402). It reflects it has 4 active 40mm Bufors. Can I/should I, force/adjust the unit's numbers to 4 disabled Bufors (to be rebuilt through supply and replacements, or are you suggesting that I should create another TOE in fields 2350 through 2899 to effect this type of change.

To achieve the same effect, you might consider leaving the TOE the way it is. [Weapon Slot 3 = x4 1132 40mm Bofors].

In the at-start BF units, change the weapon in Slot 3 to either 1132 x0, or to another AA weapon (37mm, or 0.5 Browning).

In the device field, set the production for Bofors to begin in 1/42 -- or whenever you want.

As Bofors become available through production, they will fill out Slot 3, or replace the non-TOE weapon in that slot -- as long as the BF is set to "replacements allowed."

Thank you very much for both of your informative posts and suggestions. I will need to steps back and regurgitate them, but, the scary thing is I think I am understanding. You know I have the the old dog new tricks syndrome.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

As far as the LCU BFs still fuzzy. Let's say my BF has a 2402 TOE and is referenced properly by the unit 5005 105th USN BF at Juneau as in Scenario #1. It show no 40mm Bofors whereas the TOE has 4. I get (I think) that the the unit as been adjusted to zero out the TOEs 40mms. Now let's take unit 5006 106th USN BF (with the same TOE 2402). It reflects it has 4 active 40mm Bufors. Can I/should I, force/adjust the unit's numbers to 4 disabled Bufors (to be rebuilt through supply and replacements, or are you suggesting that I should create another TOE in fields 2350 through 2899 to effect this type of change.

To achieve the same effect, you might consider leaving the TOE the way it is. [Weapon Slot 3 = x4 1132 40mm Bofors].

In the at-start BF units, change the weapon in Slot 3 to either 1132 x0, or to another AA weapon (37mm, or 0.5 Browning).

In the device field, set the production for Bofors to begin in 1/42 -- or whenever you want.

As Bofors become available through production, they will fill out Slot 3, or replace the non-TOE weapon in that slot -- as long as the BF is set to "replacements allowed."

Another question. Say I didn't want a base/port to include Air Support (no historical airfield), is there away of prioritizing what fills out from the TOE before I shut off replacements? Or,is this a case where I should create another USN Port Base Force (like the 2402,) excluding the Air Support, and point the unit to that TOE?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Another question. Say I didn't want a base/port to include Air Support (no historical airfield), is there away of prioritizing what fills out from the TOE before I shut off replacements? Or,is this a case where I should create another USN Port Base Force (like the 2402,) excluding the Air Support, and point the unit to that TOE?

Asked the same question of BigJ recently. Here's how I "think" the system works.

1) You have a BF (or whatever) OOB, that does NOT refer to a TOE: That OOB "becomes" the TOE and will not ever change unless and until the specific Devices in the Wpn slots upgrade according to their Device schedule.

2) You have a BF (or whatever) OOB, that DOES refer to a TOE, but your OOB has '0' for some of the Wpn slots; things just happen as Blackhorse describes, your choice.

3) You have a BF (or whatever) OOB, that DOES refer to a TOE, but your OOB has "other weapons" for some of the Wpn slots; you won't get the TOE weapons unless and until either a) the "other weapons" are all destroyed in which case, the TOE weapons replace them, or b) the "other weapons" upgrade on the device schedule.

Hope this helps.