Search arc display. Confusing

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: ADB123

I assumed that the original search algorithm looked at whatever area was within the circle that the planes were searching, added some calculations that factored in the number of planes, weather, experience, etcetera and so on, and the decided if any of the planes were able to "spot" anything. So I assumed that any "arc-based" searching would be limited to the defined arc, and apply the same calculations, only on a smaller area.

My assumption may have been wrong. It doesn't matter to me, because I'm just not bothering with search arcs because I find them too complicated to use and they don't do what I want. But that's just me.

Thanks for the comments.

The search algorithm has not changed at all since the original release. What you have now is just showing you what has been happening all along.

Bill

Ah, so what you folks did from the beginning was fundamentally different from what I thought that you did. The on screen search-radius arcs always made me assume that the search planes were searching within the entire area, with the effectiveness of the search a function of the number of search planes. (i.e., more planes = more planes per square mile)

So just to make certain that I am understanding clearly, what has always been in place is a series of 10 deg arc searchs, the number of which depends upon the number of search planes? If that is correct, when an air unit's Search is set without setting arcs, where does the Game start and finish the arcs of search - at any particular location or at a random position.

Thanks -

[HansBolter]

Gents, wouldn't a viable solution to the confusion and dissatisfaction be to simply place a constraint on the selectable range of arc determined by the number of planes in the squadron.....ie....make it impossible to select an arc greater than the number of the planes in the squadron can accommodate?

Furthermore, have the game provide a response like "arc range exceeds number of search planes available" when a player inadvertantly, unwittingly, or unknowingly attempts to select an arc range greater than can be accommodated so they, once again, are not left scratching their heads over the reason for the failure.

[foliveti]

Now that you can see the arcs why do you need something to tell you the arc set is bigger than the number of planes. Also, due to repair and replacements the size of the arc searched can change from turn to turn.
I have been making the area searched larger than the available planes on purpose.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Gents, wouldn't a viable solution to the confusion and dissatisfaction be to simply place a constraint on the selectable range of arc determined by the number of planes in the squadron.....ie....make it impossible to select an arc greater than the number of the planes in the squadron can accommodate?

Furthermore, have the game provide a response like "arc range exceeds number of search planes available" when a player inadvertantly, unwittingly, or unknowingly attempts to select an arc range greater than can be accommodated so they, once again, are not left scratching their heads over the reason for the failure.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

A 5 plane squadron can at most search only 100 degrees of arc; 50 degrees in the morning and 50 degrees in the evening, and their fatigue is going to go way up in the process since they never get any time off to rest.  Even with the 12 plane squadrons I try and have them search only 90-120 degrees of arc so they can keep their fatigue levels down.

As Allies I add 25% more pilots than aircraft so some of them get some rest every phase.

[Rob Brennan UK]

Personally i love this new search arc feature. Please don't change it !

For anyone struggling with geometry, just ignore the arcs and the game does its best to do 360 search with whats available.

simples <slurp> [;)]

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Personally i love this new search arc feature. Please don't change it !

For anyone struggling with geometry, just ignore the arcs and the game does its best to do 360 search with whats available.

simples <slurp> [;)]

Amen. Any attempt to "idiot proof" this feature will suck resources away from more important efforts and will ultimately be confounded by a bigger idiot. No offense people, but there are 100's of things in this game that are very hard. At least with Search there's visual feedback to help you determine what's going on. I mean really, click the damn buttons and you'll get real-time validation of the effects! Hit the button to increase/decrease the range and the lines on the map will lengthen or shorten accordingly. Increase/decrease the arc and it will show. Increase/decrease the percent of planes flying and - again - it will show up on the screen!

Contrast this with the new malaria change. "Stuff" will happen to your units in malaria zones and you'll never know exactly why morale is dipping and/or fatigue is increasing. Does that mean the feature should be removed or altered so there's some kind of on-screen "effects" graph? Because we can't precisely determine the effects down to the individual grunt in a foxhole? No. Like everything else in this game, pay attention and ask questions, and ultimately you'll figure it out.

[witpqs]

Concur. The search arcs are great as is. If you want random search arcs then just leave your search units set that way. As they pointed out - this is the same as it has been since AE's release, just now you can see more explicitly what is happening.

a) Don't assign search arcs, random ones assigned each turn.

b) Assign search arcs, you are shown how many will be flown based upon available planes at the time you display the search arcs (might vary during the game turn).

Best of all, no more magic search like in old WITP. Each plane can only search a realistic arc each phase each turn.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: ADB123
Ah, so what you folks did from the beginning was fundamentally different from what I thought that you did. The on screen search-radius arcs always made me assume that the search planes were searching within the entire area, with the effectiveness of the search a function of the number of search planes. (i.e., more planes = more planes per square mile)

So just to make certain that I am understanding clearly, what has always been in place is a series of 10 deg arc searchs, the number of which depends upon the number of search planes? If that is correct, when an air unit's Search is set without setting arcs, where does the Game start and finish the arcs of search - at any particular location or at a random position.

Thanks -

For the AM phase, search arcs always start at the first number and goes clockwise in 10 degree increments until it runs out of planes. In the PM, it picks up where it left off. If there are more arcs in the set, it will continue. If it runs out of arcs in the set, it will go back to the first angle and start over.

The searching will always go back to the first angle when it runs out of sectors, so if you set your search range to fairly small and have a lot of aircraft, the area selected will be heavily searched. This will increase chances of detection, and for ASW, the chances of attack on an enemy sub.

Bill

[madflava13]

Search arcs - I get it, I love it. Please don't change a thing!

[morganbj]

It's fine as it is.

[Graymane]

There are many, many posts on this topic. Take some time and read up on it. It will pay off. In a nutshell, a plane can search a 10 degree arc in the morning and a 10 degree arc in the afternoon. So, your options for setting an arc for a single plane are 10 degrees or 20 degrees. 10 degrees is obviously better for finding something and 20 is better for coverage. The different colors denote the morning and evening search arcs.

The second thing you have to consider is how many planes will be flying? If you have 6 planes on 50% search, you will be flying 3 planes, not 6 planes. That means a max of 60 degrees total.

The third thing you have to consider is the range. More range means less chance of finding something. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the max search range is 12 hexes.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Personally i love this new search arc feature. Please don't change it !

For anyone struggling with geometry, just ignore the arcs and the game does its best to do 360 search with whats available.

simples <slurp> [;)]

I am with you.

[AFIntel]

For what it's worth - I get it now, and me likes it! [:)]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Personally i love this new search arc feature. Please don't change it !

For anyone struggling with geometry, just ignore the arcs and the game does its best to do 360 search with whats available.

simples <slurp> [;)]

Yup, I'm good with it........Don't change it back[:-]

[pompack]

We need to organize a Search Arc Fanboy Club, or perhaps a Political Action Group to lobby against search arc changes [:D]

[tbridges]

Will there be dues...?

[AFIntel]

Hey, pompack, a fellow wargamer in the DFW area!

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: tbridges

Will there be dues...?

Certainly. You will be required to make a post in defense of Search Arcs whenever someone puts up a thread complaining about them. [;)]

[tbridges]

sign me up!

[Templer_12]

Thanks folks for the "search arc tutorial". [:)]

I get it now. And after I know what´s going on here I say it´s a good solution.
I don´t want to see it changed. [:)]

To ADB123. Post # 6
Take a serious try. Maybe there could be a easier solution. But if you know how it work, you will be able to deal with it.
It´s not that hard.

We love the game because it´s not so easy.
Now there is just one more "not so easy task" you have to master.


BTW
If these search arc setting system work like it did before the visual showing - huh, I know now why the japanese often knocks on my door without been spotted before. [:(]

Currently, I see more than 1000 hits. This thread was probably necessary.