Can You Starve an AI Mega-Stack?

[ADB123]

In my Patch 1 campaign game against the Japanese AI I set up what I hoped would be a Fighting Withdrawal in Burma. Then the AI came in with 3 full Divisions, 4 Tank Regiments, assorted Infantry Regiments, Combat Engineers, HQs and everything else it could find - something on the order of 100K worth of troops. I was obviously in very deep doo-doo, but I had pulled back most of my British 2-Es and fighters into India, so I set them to work to bomb the oncoming hordes. For whatever reason the AI quickly gave up aerial sparing with my forces and left my bombing attacks alone.

So I was in a situation where many if not all of my British 2-Es would fly out most days and pound the oncoming Japanese forces along the Road to Mandalay. Never-the-less, the IJA forces continued on and captured Mandalay, Swebo, and the rest of the local bases easily as most of my troops retreated in defeat to Myitkyina.

However, the AI, being The AI, didn't bother garrisoning the bases it was capturing, and didn't bother going after Lashio. I happened to have a handful of small but competent ground units in Lashio, so for curiositie's sake I sent one back down the road to Mandalay and captured it against no opposition. The AI didn't respond, so I sent more small combat units down the rail road and captured Swebo and the rest of the bases around Mandalay. The AI still didn't respond and instead continued along towards Myitkyina, despite daily aerial bombardments of up to 100 2-Es.

Now, at this point, as far as I could tell, the 100K of AI troops should have been cut off from all supply, since I held all of the bases in Central Burma. I was also bombing the IJA forces on a daily basis. I would have thought that this would have slowed down the IJA troops, but it didn't. They eventually marched to Myitkyina, quickly wore down the Level 4 fortifications, and knocked my units out to the little dot base in the jungle to the north.

I then set my planes to start to bomb the airfield at Myitkyina into the Stone Age, which they proceeded to do quite enthusiastically and effectively. Never-the-less, the Japanese troops started to march along the jungle road between Myitkyina and Lashio and quickly captured the dot base along the way. All the time my bombers continue to hit the Japanese units on a daily basis without any interference.

Now, when my LCUs are cut off from supply and bombed by the AI they quickly dissolve into "nothingness" in the absence of supply lines (and sometimes even in the presence of supply lines). Why are the AI's forces still marching along happily, capturing everything in their path as if they are in full supply? I would have thought that it would be near to impossible to supply such a big force at such a distance, let alone keep it on the go when it should be cut off from all supply. And no, the AI isn't flying in supplies - nothing is getting past all of the CAP that I have buzzing over that region.

So what do I have to do to stop a "mega-stack"? Is my only recourse to match it with a mega-stack of my own? If I tried I would be extremely hard pressed to get a British Mega-Stack into Burma in less than two game-months, and then I have no idea how I would provide supplies for it.

[GB68]

You have got to remember that playing Vs the AI, it gets certain bonuses (read cheats) against what a human player would achieve. And there are many to consider. Some of them include extra supply, where it would not normally available. Even things like more planes flying from a base than there is AV support available. I personally have seen this one many times.

I guess it is designed to give the human player a competitive experience. Which is all well and good. But , my personal thoughts are that the AI Team went in the wrong direction with this. I guess you could say, that the ends justify the means, but it is wrongly directed, I feel. But I'm not to criticise them and their very hard work. I do feel it is worth the effort, if only for practical experience.

I was pretty much a solely Vs AI player in the past, but I have discovered the amazing benefits of playing a human player via PBEM. I wholeheartedly recommend it you to get the full experience of this amazing game! Game seems such a disparaging moniker, perhaps lifestyle is the word. It is all encompassing sometimes. Especially when playing PBEM and waiting for the next turn in your inbox!

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: GB68

You have got to remember that playing Vs the AI, it gets certain bonuses (read cheats) against what a human player would achieve. And there are many to consider. Some of them include extra supply, where it would not normally available. Even things like more planes flying from a base than there is AV support available. I personally have seen this one many times.

I guess it is designed to give the human player a competitive experience. Which is all well and good. But , my personal thoughts are that the AI Team went in the wrong direction with this. I guess you could say, that the ends justify the means, but it is wrongly directed, I feel. But I'm not to criticise them and their very hard work. I do feel it is worth the effort, if only for practical experience.

I was pretty much a solely Vs AI player in the past, but I have discovered the amazing benefits of playing a human player via PBEM. I wholeheartedly recommend it you to get the full experience of this amazing game! Game seems such a disparaging moniker, perhaps lifestyle is the word. It is all encompassing sometimes. Especially when playing PBEM and waiting for the next turn in your inbox!

I find it difficult to find the time to play pbem. For instance, I travel a lot, and I can't load WitP on my business PC, so I can't play when I'm away. And I don't usually have much time to play on the weekends due to family commitments. So if I were to play pbem my opponents would be waiting for the next turn a lot more than they would likely want.

Oh well, I'll have to be patient with the AI and try to figure out ways to compensate for its advantages.

Thanks for the info.

[Andy Mac]

Yes and the AI does not get supply advantages at a unit level so if cut off its cut off.

There are rear area security scripts so they are obviously not firing if you are able to do what you describe.

Same story as always I cannot figure out what is going on without a save so please SEND ME A SAVE

No point in complaining or logging issues if you dont send me a save as I cannot figure out why the AI has not fired properly from forum posts 1500 scripts x 13 scripts I have no chance of even getting close to that one without a SAVE

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Yes and the AI does not get supply advantages at a unit level so if cut off its cut off.

There are rear area security scripts so they are obviously not firing if you are able to do what you describe.

Same story as always I cannot figure out what is going on without a save so please SEND ME A SAVE

No point in complaining or logging issues if you dont send me a save as I cannot figure out why the AI has not fired properly from forum posts 1500 scripts x 13 scripts I have no chance of even getting close to that one without a SAVE

Whoa Andy..., calm down. "ADB123" was just asking if this was the way it was supposed to work? You need to tell him "No it isn't", then ask him to provide a save to check it out.

I know dealing with the AI is a frustrating and thankless task (and thank you for doing it by the way [&o])..., but if you yell at them before they've done anything wrong you'll just discourage feedback. You need to leave the yelling for Terminous..., he does enough for everyone. [:D]

[ADB123]

Andy - I'll I get a save off to you this evening - I don't have the game with me right now.

BTW - this will be a save of the same game that I sent to you late last week, so you'll be able to compare the progress of the game and scripts if you still have the email and the older version.

Thanks

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: GB68

You have got to remember that playing Vs the AI, it gets certain bonuses (read cheats) against what a human player would achieve. And there are many to consider. Some of them include extra supply, where it would not normally available. Even things like more planes flying from a base than there is AV support available. I personally have seen this one many times.

I guess it is designed to give the human player a competitive experience. Which is all well and good. But , my personal thoughts are that the AI Team went in the wrong direction with this. I guess you could say, that the ends justify the means, but it is wrongly directed, I feel. But I'm not to criticise them and their very hard work. I do feel it is worth the effort, if only for practical experience.

I was pretty much a solely Vs AI player in the past, but I have discovered the amazing benefits of playing a human player via PBEM. I wholeheartedly recommend it you to get the full experience of this amazing game! Game seems such a disparaging moniker, perhaps lifestyle is the word. It is all encompassing sometimes. Especially when playing PBEM and waiting for the next turn in your inbox!

I've seen the AI flying around 500 aircraft out of Voroshilov in one game. The AI fighter stack is so big there I can't even get my own aircraft to fly missions there, they fail the check due to the thickness of the AI cap. Quite annoying actually.

[jcjordan]

I can provide a backup to ABD as well as I'm seeing what looks like the same problem. In my game started under the original release patched up to beta2, the AI has a death star like stack marching that looks to just drive forward w/o stopping (call it the AE equivilent of Shermans March to the sea). In my game, I've retaken Rangoon just after losing it as well as the bases around Mandalay so supply lines should be cut off. It does seem to loop back briefly before going on to next objective which I assume is Myitkyina so would expect it to loop back to Mandalay area after that. I loaded the game to look at troop supply lvls of the cutoff troops & they had more than 1000 for the multiple divisions involved. I'll post my save in the tech support tomorrow when I bring my laptop in.

[Andy Mac]

Not shouting Mike but without a save I cannot do a thing

Ai doesnt have unit supply cheat so no idea why the counter attack scripts are not firing

[Andy Mac]

Actually not strictly true I have an inkling but I need to see a save to confirm it.

Depending on which script it is and the xact date it might be because I extended the AttackBurmaMain script to do some other things so it no longer ends when base x falls and it maybe using most of the scen 1 units.

I would need a save to work it out htough

[Andy Mac]

I need to know Scenario, Date, Units and lbase and a save to really pinb it down.

Don't forget depending on the exact geography supply does not all flow along railways or roads anymore you can get supply from other bases if you are close enough I think its 2 or 3 hexes so if their is a jungle route to a Japanese base with supply then some will get through (albeit heavily attritted0

[ADB123]

Andy - The save's in the email...

BTW - subsequent to the save that I sent, the AI captured Myitkyina, and then moved all of its forces along the road to Lashio. So I moved a unit back into Myitkyina and recaptured it. So far the AI hasn't turned back from attacking Lashio.

If the AI keeps on doing this we could be going in a big circle in Central Burma for a long time... [;)]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Not shouting Mike but without a save I cannot do a thing

Fully understand, Andy. Just thought you were being a bit "testy" in your answer. You told him that "Yes, it shouldn't work that way.", requested a save, and more or less chewed him out for not sending one..., all in the same post. Just felt you were being a bit unfair.

[Andy Mac]

OK if it came across that way apologies.

had a look at what was happening and it was basically that the Ai script has not yet finished and until it does it wont make units available for other scripts.

For patch 3 I will add a backup reaction script to fire just in case it happens again but in reality the Ai should clear its lines after it takes the last two bases in the script