Bloody Pacific: Undercovergeek (Japan) vs. Yank (Allies)

[undercovergeek]

ORIGINAL: GB68

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek



next turn there will be a sweep and the rest of the Zeros will escort Bettys and Nells on port attack to try and dmage the immense coastal guns here.

I would think to suppress the coastal guns, you would need to be using Ground Attack. As the CD units are treated as LCUs.

Great AAR BTW.

really? if youre right i need to start changing some instructions - really really sure?

[undercovergeek]

Pacific

SS Gar makes her first appearance off the Hawaiian coast, she is hit 6 times by 3 different ASW forces during the day - welcome to Lahaina!

At Kona its not so easy going, i think Yank has moved all other subs here - its a great day for the S-23, she sinks 2 xAKLs unloading the 15th BF here, and comes to the surface to attack a third, the xAKL fires first causing enough damage for the sub to re-submerge - hopefully forever. SS Nautilus hits another xAKL and the Thresher misses her target -survivors of the 15th BF climb aboard the remaining ships.

44 Zeros sweep the base at 23k feet but do not engage the remaining 8 fighters on CAP at Pearl. 37 more escort 42 Nells, 49 Bettys and 16 Sallys into their port attack - the San Fransisco takes 3 bomb hits, the previously thought sunk BB Nevada takes 19 bomb hits, the BB Pennsylvania takes 14 bomb hits and the also thought sunk BB Maryland takes 18 bomb hits, a Zero, 2 Nells and 2 Bettys dont make it back. Minor port damage occurs and a few casualties are caused.

In revenge 3 B17s strike at Lahaina and the CA Ashigara but miss - 2 are damaged.

I think there is enough damaged aircraft on the ground at Pearl to switch the attack to airfield next turn - the threat the airforce poses here is nil, i just want to cause as much distruption and damage as possible - probably the turn after the ground attacks will start.

Lahaina makes it to level 5 but then goes straight onto 28% of level 6 - i will go to level 6 here and then definitely ship the engineers to Kona and then onto Hilo whicj should be level 3 in 2 turns.

The 51st Naval Guard runs into the garrison at Palmyra that the recon didnt see - the rest of the boats are instructed to unload the 53rd Naval Guards and the Sasebo 1st.

AV support, engineers, base forces and garrisons are almost ready to leave for the new islands in the SoPac, once Palmyra falls the next island to take will be Christmas - in time i want search aircraft on all the front line islands. After Christmas then its onto Fiji with the victorious forces from Pearl.

The mini-KB is just off Midway and the KB itself is just out of Tokyo - some airgroups are flown off to land at Tokyo and start rebuilding.

Phillipines/Formosa/South China Sea/Borneo

Over the last few turns sporadic bombing of supply ships has come out of Manilla to interupt the landing of engineers at Appari, all Oscars in the area are sent here to intercept over Aparri and sweep the base of Manilla.

Determined attacks by the blind 139WH-3s are still trying to reach the TFs occupying the Celebes but they all miss.

A landing at Ternate goes horribly wrong when a small part of an SNLF was sent here to occupy the 'undefended' base - recon gets it wrong again and the small force surrenders as it gets off the boat!

Malaya

The sneaky cruisers head past Singapore and bombard Malacca on their way, minor damage occurs - i suspect this is them retreating up the strait to the Indian Ocean - well see.

China

Another bad day for the IJA - troops inadvertently sent to the base of Sinyang instead of standing just outside the base are shock attacked and suffer a massive 9170 casualties and retreat back to Henkow.

Up North at the dot base of Kaoping 10k Allied troops attack the 130k troops massed there as the IJA prepare to unleash their attacks in Northern China, despite still been in move mode 2634 casualties are inflicted and only 116 Japanese are lost.

[ADB123]

In your oppoent's shoes I'd be very tempted at this point to start to send lots of ships to the East Coast or Panama and start to send LOTS of forces to India. The US West Coast can take care of itself. (In your opponent's shoes I would also start to fortify Diego Garcia in a big, Big way. )

In any event, keep up the great AAR! This is lots of fun to read!

[modrow]

Undercovergeek,

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

really? if youre right i need to start changing some instructions - really really sure?

I have no idea what is the right answer in AE. But somewhere in the back of my head I think there used to be a game called WitP a long, long time ago, and I think that somewhere in the forums corresponding to that game someone determined that port attacks are the way to go to get rid of CD guns, thus I would have gone for a port attack as well.
Especially, as if I recall correctly in WitP not all units in a stack were attacked by the ground attack missions, but just one, which had a relatively high (the highest ?) strength. Thus, I would go for port attack not ground attack, just like you did/planned to do,but I may be wrong there.

In general, successful port attacks and airfield attacks do produce losses of personnel and guns, not just damaged facilities and fuel/supplydumps. I think that those losses are inflicted on the respective base forces and not randomly opn any unit that's around.

I think a second factor to be considered here is that port attacks destroy supplies and AAA activity as well as CD activity is reduced if supply is scarce. But once again, all of these comments are a) based on heresay and b) may be outdated.

Btw, interesting AAR...[&o]

Hartwig

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: ADB123

In your oppoent's shoes I'd be very tempted at this point to start to send lots of ships to the East Coast or Panama and start to send LOTS of forces to India. The US West Coast can take care of itself. (In your opponent's shoes I would also start to fortify Diego Garcia in a big, Big way. )

In any event, keep up the great AAR! This is lots of fun to read!

There is no need to send ships to the east coast to move LCUs or planes. Put your LCUs/land units in strategic mode or move mode [can't remember at this time] set them to march to Capetown and off they go.

The only way ships are needed is if you need to move something fast, say 16 to 28 knots or fuel /supplies. [:)]

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

ORIGINAL: ADB123

In your oppoent's shoes I'd be very tempted at this point to start to send lots of ships to the East Coast or Panama and start to send LOTS of forces to India. The US West Coast can take care of itself. (In your opponent's shoes I would also start to fortify Diego Garcia in a big, Big way. )

In any event, keep up the great AAR! This is lots of fun to read!

There is no need to send ships to the east coast to move LCUs or planes. Put your LCUs/land units in strategic mode or move mode [can't remember at this time] set them to march to Capetown and off they go.

The only way ships are needed is if you need to move something fast, say 16 to 28 knots or fuel /supplies. [:)]

You're right. I wasn't clear with my writing. I was thinking of moving combat ships. Never-the-less, the idea would seem to have a lot of merit in the situation that is occuring in this particular game.

[GB68]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

ORIGINAL: GB68

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek



next turn there will be a sweep and the rest of the Zeros will escort Bettys and Nells on port attack to try and dmage the immense coastal guns here.

I would think to suppress the coastal guns, you would need to be using Ground Attack. As the CD units are treated as LCUs.

Great AAR BTW.

really? if youre right i need to start changing some instructions - really really sure?

That has always been my understanding of it. My reasoning being, that the CD units are LCUs. But Hartwig presents some good arguements as well. My thinking would still be that graound attack would be more effective. Although port and airfield attack, I'm sure would still effect some disruption on the CD.

[Redd]

If AE is the same as WitP then as I remember it you want to do port attacks. Ground attacks will target the unit with the highest AV. Airfield attacks will cause damage to any air base units. Port will damage naval base units and possibly CD units. Could have changed but I can't see why they would bother.[:)]

[Fishbed]

How comes invading PH now seems easier than it was with Admiral Laurent? Is that because the new scale makes one or more sides of the island defenceless?

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

How comes invading PH now seems easier than it was with Admiral Laurent? Is that because the new scale makes one or more sides of the island defenceless?

Because he isn't at PH yet, probably. PH is one-hex base, but I guess there are more islands, that can be used as a staging groung around (I never played WitP).

[modrow]

Fishbed,

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

How comes invading PH now seems easier than it was with Admiral Laurent? Is that because the new scale makes one or more sides of the island defenceless?

not sure whether it is easier, FatR is correct - no action at Pearl so far.

However, there are three important factors that may make have an impact on invasions in AE. So far, my PBEM is just in early January 42, but this is what I seem to see (pre-patch2 observations, and definitely no whining or contribution to AFB/JFB discussions intended):

a) Allied Naval attacks conducted by level bombers are toothless. Whereas in WitP, even the Martins would provide you with a lucky hit every now and then, now they don't hit anything any more. I currently believe that Japan can get away with deeper strikes into the enemy territory than before because the air threat against its SLOC is virtually non-existent. This means, the probability to get your OOB ashore intact is bigger than before.

b) Allied pilot quality is most likely low. The training mission is extremely slow, and -what is worse- pilots don't really seem to pick up a lot of exp by flying combat missions (if any at all). This means that the fighters and bombers at Pearl are probably not in good shape, as indicated by the exchange rates. Whereas in WitP a group tended to improve when used, even if it took losses every now and then, now I have a few groups on the map whose quality deteriorated, because the loss of experienced pilots seems no longer to be compensated by gain of experience of the rest of the gang.

c) Allied troop quality. At the beginning of the game, many units -including the US troops at Pearl- start with rather low exp values. Here, an important question may be whether or not LCUs at Pearl have been using the rest/train command (which can increase exp nicely) intensely or not.

Just my 2cts. Specifically, if anyone believes that naval attack success rate may be greatly improved by doing XXX or pilot experience rockets to the sky when doing YYY, please share your expertise !

Hartwig

[undercovergeek]

thanks for all comments so far.

No action at Pearl yet. Lahaina, Molokai, Kona and shortly Hilo are Japanese - air defenses at Pearl are crushed and there is very little naval interference, the only danger left to the landings are the landings themselves - coastal guns and infantry fire will be the biggest cause of my troubles but as soon as im on shore i should be ok - to minimise this as many bombers as the surrounding airfields can support are preparing for port and ground attacks.

As for Allied bombing - your right - they couldnt hit a cows ass with a banjo

[Rainer79]

Regarding pilot XP at least, the patch 2 beta definitely seems an improvement. At least at lower skill levels the training order does work more efficiently and each day several pilots will improve.

It is sadly correct that Japanese SLOCs are secure initially (if you can avoid surface engagements) though there are two exceptions IMO. One is the use of the early British torpedo bombers. While their numbers are limited and you need to pre-position an Air HQ for maximum effect, they can do quite a number of IJN shipping. The days where a large AK will shrug off multiple torpedo hits are definitely gone. This is probably not much of a factor near Pearl.

The other is the aggressive use of subs (and spending the PPs needed for removing unsuitable/cautious captains). While US torpedoes do have their problems, subs will have very good success rates when used together with PBYs for scouting and if their turn-around times are low (i.e. if you can control a base in the vicinity where they can rearm and refuel). At Pearl that should be the case.

Regarding ground unit XP, it is my impression that the rest order mainly improves morale while XP can only be gained once prep for the current target hits 100. Some confirmation would be nice though.

[undercovergeek]

Pacific

A busy day under the waves as the subs collect at Kona and the ASW forces get the hang of their duties -

SS Plunger, Thresher and Trout all miss their targets at Kona, SS Gar takes 7 more hits, and the SS-23 rises to attack an xAK and then submerges again due to damage - no fire is exchanged, but in the afternoon sinks an xAK with a torpedo.

The follow up port attack is cancelled due to bad weather - the only thing in the air was an attack of 3 B17s that all succumb to AA fire and return home damaged.

The 20th and the 9th Inf Regiments sent to Hilo only made 2 miles of progress and seem to be walking across the middle of the island instead of round the road - they have been resent North East and will the descend South East into Hilo.

The bombers at Lahaina are set to Airfield Attack - i want to damage as many planes on the ground as possible and will then switch back to Port.

Palmyra falls to the 51st and 53rd Naval Guards at odds of 5:1 - 2200 prisoners are taken - AV support will be flown in asap to recon Christmas Is.

Phillipines/Formosa/South China Sea/Borneo

The Oscars sweep Manilla but no damage is taken by either side - the Nates go in dribs and drabs and 4 are lost - all the Nates will be rested while the Oscars shut down the new air threat at Manilla.

A combat force breaks off from Manilla and occupies Iba along with the 8th JAAF Inf Btn but no attck occurs, the 8th moves out east to Lingayen.

Unoccupied Kettapang in Borneo falls to the Yokusuka 2nd - in the Celebes one undefended base remains before the Balikpapan Invasion force splits and takes Kendari and Maccassar.

Something weird occurs at Balikpapan - a shock attack is triggered as the forces cross the river but the 700 Assault Value is reduced to 14 and the garrisons AV remains at 17 - i think maybe one element of the forces - the Base Force - got there first and initiated the shock attack - minor casualties on both sides - we'll what happens next turn.

A number of turns ago the 90th regiment was bought and is shipping to Davao, this will be used to clear out islands like Ambon and Ternate in the area, and down through northern New Guinea.

Malaya

The forces around Kuala Lumpur and Timuleh are still maneuvering into position, next turn Force B with the Imp Guards should arrive here and occupy the base leaving only Kuantan and Singapore.

A number of bombers attacks a TF waiting at Singkawang and damages one of the AKs here - LRCAP will be provided by the base - the Oscars here were resting.

China

Next turn the first major battle should occur in the north where 9 Chinese units are just about to be encircled - with the destruction of these forces the path to 2 bases very close to each other in the North will be open and then the IJA can get into position to take these 2

[Mistmatz]

ORIGINAL: Rainer79
...

Regarding ground unit XP, it is my impression that the rest order mainly improves morale while XP can only be gained once prep for the current target hits 100. Some confirmation would be nice though.

Confirmed - by own experience and also it was stated in another thread.

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

Regarding pilot XP at least, the patch 2 beta definitely seems an improvement. At least at lower skill levels the training order does work more efficiently and each day several pilots will improve.

It is sadly correct that Japanese SLOCs are secure initially (if you can avoid surface engagements) though there are two exceptions IMO. One is the use of the early British torpedo bombers. While their numbers are limited and you need to pre-position an Air HQ for maximum effect, they can do quite a number of IJN shipping. The days where a large AK will shrug off multiple torpedo hits are definitely gone. This is probably not much of a factor near Pearl.

The other is the aggressive use of subs (and spending the PPs needed for removing unsuitable/cautious captains). While US torpedoes do have their problems, subs will have very good success rates when used together with PBYs for scouting and if their turn-around times are low (i.e. if you can control a base in the vicinity where they can rearm and refuel). At Pearl that should be the case.

Regarding ground unit XP, it is my impression that the rest order mainly improves morale while XP can only be gained once prep for the current target hits 100. Some confirmation would be nice though.

The key factor is time in WitP. The Allied player needs time to prepare defenses and train up his pilots and LCUs. If a Japanese player invades early enough - and January 1942 is a prime time slot for invasion - the Allied player will not have enough time to prepare defenses and train pilots and troops. My estimation at this point is that the only two Allied regions where an early Japanese invasion won't work well are the US West Coast and the Soviet Far East. Otherwise, a well-planned, coordinated and massive attack such as is going on in this game should also be successful in Oz or India.

[Caliban]

The 20th and the 9th Inf Regiments sent to Hilo only made 2 miles of progress and seem to be walking across the middle of the island instead of round the road - they have been resent North East and will the descend South East into Hilo.

I believe that Leaders with high "Land Skill" Numbers will maximize marching speed.

Caliban

[undercovergeek]

Pacific

Yank appears to have switched all sub warfare back to Lahaina after he saw the TKs unloading here last turn. The S-34 and SS Nautilus turn up, in the morning the S-34 is found and hit twice, the Nautilus escapes, and then misses with its own attack on an unloading TK, in the afternoon she hits the same TK, the fuel goes up and the tanker goes down.

Kona goes up to a level 3 airfield and 12% into 4 - 31 Sallys land here to assist in the bombing of Pearl.

The 9th and 20th infantry regiments make up 16 miles in one day using the roads - i will try Caliban's suggestion elsewhere about leaders with good land skill, these 2 regiments along with the III/4th inf btn should arrive in Hilo in 2 turns where i expect only a base force and a CD unit - recon shows only 2 units.

The mini-KB is halfway between Midway and Pearl - im unsure what her role is yet - im not throwing Vals and Kates into the storm of AA again - i may just hang around and try and intercept any sneaky Allied attempts to reinforce Pearl.

30 Zeros escort 77 Nells and Bettys and 19 Sallys on airfield attack - 2 Allied fighter are lost trying to intercept and 44 runway hits and 17 airbase hits are inflicted at Pearl - its a heavy price - 5 bombers are destroyed and 45 damaged - i will run the same attack next turn - the damage sounds high but back at the bases there arent this many in repairs.

37 Zeros sweep Pearl and destroy 2 more fighters for no loss, in reply 1 fighter escorts 4 B17s to Lahaina to attack BB Fuso, all 4 bombers return home damaged - the fighter is destroyed by CAP.

Tfs criss cross the SoPac where engineer units, garrisons, AV support units and construction battallions are sent to the recently captured islands to be built, fortressed and guarded.

At Suva the graceful lines of the Queen Elizabeth glide out of the harbour - she is spotted by the I-10 who fires 6 torpedoes, 1 hits and the xAK limps off - the I-10 moves off in her direction for another shot.

Phillipines/Formosa/South China Sea/Borneo

43 Oscars sweep Manilla at 21k feet - 1 is destroyed but 4 Allied fighters are also destroyed - the tide has turned again in the IJA's favour.

At Appari Allied bombers attack an unload xAK supplying the AV support troops here - 9 Oscars on CAP here manage to destroy 1 more fighter for no loss - 5:1 over the day, much better than before.

The tireless but blind 139WH-3s are at it again off the coast of Balikpapan, 4 attack the Haruna and Kongo - 4 return home on fire.

This time, with everyone across the river Balikpapan falls, at 25:1 the Base Forces surrender and the troops elect to retreat to Benjarsamin - at least 12 hexes of jungle - they wont be seen again! Theres 85k tonnes of fuel, the oil fields are undamaged and there is 22k tonnes of it in stock - Samah sends her big oilers to collect the oil and transport TFs set off to move the troops here to Maccassar and Kendari where the last undefended base on the Celebes falls at Kolaka.

Once the Celebes have fallen and Borneo is in the hands of the IJA, the 3 main offensive units here - 124th, 65th and Guards will be sent to north of Palembang to start offensives here with engineers and some troops taken from Malaya - im traditionally a division over here so i will borrow a regiment or two and start the Sumatra campaign.

China

Just maneuvering - the big attack is not ready yet - the 9 units are not fully encircled.

Malaya

Again just maneuvering, Timoleh is almost reached and Kuala Lumpur strengthened.

[undercovergeek]

Pacific

SS Nautilus tries again to sink a TK at Lahaina but misses, switches focus to an AKE recently converted at Tokyo and literally just arrived at Lahaina, and misses again. The S-28 joins in and sinks one of the just arrived AKEs [:@], the Nautilus tries again in the afternoon but misses again - she is now short 12 torpedoes, as a consequence all ASW is routed to Lahaina - the shipping here is much more important than a few AKs at Kona. The cruisers at Lahaina find Nautilus in the afternoon but cant carry out an attack.

The 20th, 9th and III/4th Inf Btn reach the north of the island and now march south towards Hilo - they will be there in 2 turns.

Lahaina reaches level 6 for the airfield and construction out of the other side is only 2% - expansion is halted, transports are on their way to collect the engineers to speed up Kona and start on the soon-to-be-Japanese Hilo.

All transport ships from the area: Johnston Is, Wake, Midway are being routed to Lahaina in preparation of collecting the 16th Div and the 33rd Div for the invasion of Pearl.

74 Zeros escort 87 bombers on an airfield attack at Pearl - 4 are destroyed and 40 are damaged - but again this is not whats reflected on the ground. 3 Fighters on CAP are destroyed and 3 bombers on the ground are destroyed - 53 runway hits occur. 29 Zeros then sweep Pearl and catch another fighter.

In the afternoon 15 bombers including 10 SBD-3 Dauntless attack shipping at Lahaina, the escort either forgets to turn up or there isnt one available anymore - 5 bombers are destroyed and 4 damaged by the 9 Zero CAP.

At French Frigate Shoals the mini KB bumps into an allied TF of 2 AVs heading north west towards Midway, i dont know what theyre doing here - 25 Vals across 2 attempts attack the AV Curtiss and the AV Tangier - all miss for the loss of 1 Val. I imagine this has taken Yank more by surprise than me as i suspect he thought there was no flatops in the area.

Phillipines/Formosa/South China Sea/Borneo

Speaking of surprises and flat tops at least one Allied CV appears off the south of the Celebes. Fortunately all thats here are the 2 TFs that have been loading and unloading small SNLFs to capture the undefended Celebes bases, one at Palopo and one at Kolaka - all transports succumb to the SBD-3s and sink, fortunately just supplies are lost - the only Japanese LSD is sunk however. Needless to say the Blindfolded Blind Bombers of Manado are put on full alert - lets see what the Myopic legion can do to the CV TF off their coast.

Undefended Palopo falls - the way is clear to attack Maccassar and Kendari - Maccassar first then Kendari to cause the surrender of as many troops as possible. The 124th will go to Maccassar, the 65th and Guards to Kendari, one of these will stay off shore in reserve - im not sure 2 brigades will be needed here, bases forces and engineers are also in the mix. This leaves Balikpapan without a garrison other than AV Support and a base force - the 66th Inf Reg is purchased from Canton in the North, this is been shipped to Balikpapan immediately, a small SNLF will eventually do the job here so the 66th can be freed to help out in Sumatra.

The airwar over Manilla fairs much better - 44 Oscars sweep the base destroying 3 fighters for no loss. 4 Hudsons are damaged attempting to bomb Aparri supply ships.

China

Still maneuvering

Malaya

During the night the mini evil cruiser force with the Dragon and Durban bombard Malacca again but hardly scratch the 18th Division here - a sub or 2 will be sent here.

Ground forces still doing their thing for a turn or two.

Next turn

Things i expect to happen or want to happen next turn:
- a hard port attack at Pearl, destroying supplies and disrupting forces.
- the mini KB to sink the 2 AVs off F.F Shoals
- the last of the Allied fighers to be wiped out at Pearl
- Allied CV TF to take at least 3 bombs from the massed Nells at Manado
- A landing of an SNLF at Legaspi to kick off the Southern Luzon take over
- The Imp Guards/Force B to arrive at Timuleh in Malaya
- the encirclement of the 9 units in Northern China

[Fishbed]

sorry, bad geography from me