D-Day

[MikeBrough]

I'm watching 'The Longest Day' right now - first time in 10 years or so. Is it really black-and-white - my memories of it are all in colour - just shows what an evocative film it is.

Anyways, it's got me thinking about my past life as a boardgamer and some of the D-Day games I played. One that stood out (thought not for most, according to the voting on BoardGameGeek) was Monty's D-Day. This was a game that came with a Strategy and Tactics mag in the 80s. I loved that game as it was at exactly the right level: 1Km hexes and the counters representing battalions and companies.

Is anyone aware of any PC games at the same level? Everything I've seen is at too high a level - Battles in Normandy, HPS's Normandy '44. I don't want to go to the level of individual tanks and platoons, so Steel Panthers is out. A good battalion/company treatment of a single beach would be acceptable.

[reg113]

B&W - yes

One of the all time great movies.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

I'm watching 'The Longest Day' right now - first time in 10 years or so. Is it really black-and-white - my memories of it are all in colour - just shows what an evocative film it is ...

There's something abt B&W that gives a film gravitas, or perhaps it just looks more like a documentary.

I recall "Tora, Tora Tora" was originally to be shot in B&W, but the producers later decided to go w/color.

However, filming in color was so expensive they couldn't hire any A-list actors and settled instead for character actors like Martin Balsam, who looked very unmilitary in dress whites.

[Doggie]

The Longest Day was filmed in black and white to give it an authentic feel as most documentary footage of world war Ii was in black and white. So many of the actors were actual veterans that it was billed as "World War II starring the original cast".

[Halsey]

"LOUD AND CLEAR SIR!"

Great movie.
Red Buttons is one of my favorites in the movie.

"Ding dong."
"All I hear are bells in my ears..."[:D]

[Tomus]

The actor who played John Howard, Richard Todd died this week aged 90. He was himself a paratrooper on the same mission on D-Day.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8394812.stm

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

... 1Km hexes and the counters representing battalions and companies.

Is anyone aware of any PC games at the same level?

Hi Mike the only PC game that I'm aware of at that exact level in HPS's Panzer Campaigns Normandy.

You'll want to download the Volcano Man art pack for the game to add mood Volcano Mods.

The thing about this game at this scale though, is that it is a MONSTER! With the likelihood of some wild hex densities too.

But it's a solid game after all these years.

Cheers,
Adam.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

There's something abt B&W that gives a film gravitas, or perhaps it just looks more like a documentary.

I recall "Tora, Tora Tora" was originally to be shot in B&W, but the producers later decided to go w/color.

However, filming in color was so expensive they couldn't hire any A-list actors and settled instead for character actors like Martin Balsam, who looked very unmilitary in dress whites.

Joe,

Hi, I am a movie buff (it's a worse addiction then wargames).

I'm curious, where did you hear this stuff? In the late 70's I did a term paper for school on this movie and I am pretty sure casting for this movie was not limted because of the budget. Given the times this was not a John Wayne of Kirk Douglas type of film. Damn, I wish I had kept my correspondences (the days of real letters, and then waiting weeks or in 2-3 cases a month for a reply). Anyway I am curious about your source.

Be well,

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

There's something abt B&W that gives a film gravitas, or perhaps it just looks more like a documentary.

The only way to avoid having to invest millions of dollars for special effects (which weren't that advanced at the time anyway) was to include original WWII-footage from WWII, but most of those reels were b&w.

I recall "Tora, Tora Tora" was originally to be shot in B&W, but the producers later decided to go w/color.

However, filming in color was so expensive they couldn't hire any A-list actors and settled instead for character actors like Martin Balsam, who looked very unmilitary in dress whites.

IIRC, 20th Century Fox's "Tora" was filmed on 70mm material, and most of their CinemaScope-productions during that time used to be filmed on Eastmancolor(-negatives) and developed by "De Luxe", where then the copies were produced by Technicolor in Hollywood. These movies had the line "Technicolor by DeLuxe" in their opening credits.
All 70mm copies which just mentioned "Technicolor" in their opening credits, were Eastmancolor-positives, because Technicolor did not have the labs to produce 70mm dye-transfer-copies. For technicolor, even the samples were copied to multilayer positive films. Imho, without being a film expert, a rather expensive process.

Interestingly, if I am not mistaken, Tora was filmed on FUJIcolor, making it the first movie (or first US movie??) filmed on that material from that company. In Europe, there was a tough fight between AGFAcolor and Fujifilm for market shares, so I can very well imagine that the Fuji material was even offered cheaper than the Eastman material of the time, simply because Fuji wanted to get into the US market.

Whatsoever, Tora's production costs amounted to 25 million Dollars (est., source: us.imdb.com) in 1970, which is anything but a low budget production.
If you compare this amount to the production costs of let's say "StarWars - Return of the Jedi" (1983), 11.8 million bucks, which wasn't a low budget production either, you may get an idea of the scope of the project, let alone the fact that the amount of $25 M. in 1970 would correlate with a way higher amount if Tora had been filmed in 1983.
Imho, the really expensive parts might have been the flyable reproductions (well, modified US planes) of jap planes and production of various RC models (i think where even some were scaled 1:2 and 1:5), and the actual shooting on modified US carries (where they had to make them look like Jap carriers).
But I don't think that the amount of sfx ate up the budget.

I rather think they didn't get AAA actors because the script may have come across like a rather cheesy depiction of events. The movie was a flop at the box office too, with a gross amount of $14,500,000 only. Through rentals, during the following yrs/decades, the movie made another $14,530,000 , resulting in a meager profit. The movie couldn't compete with "Patton" (1970), it got an academy award for SFX, tho.

Also, quite a few scenes had been used in other movies/TV mini series (e.g. 1970s "Pearl"), as the producers either really didn't have the budget or because the scenes couldn't be reproduced without a similar effort.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

I'm watching 'The Longest Day' right now - first time in 10 years or so. Is it really black-and-white - my memories of it are all in colour - just shows what an evocative film it is.

There was/is a 'colorized' version floating around that got at least one showing on TV in the UK, which might be the one you recall seeing. As I recall, it looks bl**dy awful.

[MikeBrough]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

... 1Km hexes and the counters representing battalions and companies.

Is anyone aware of any PC games at the same level?

Hi Mike the only PC game that I'm aware of at that exact level in HPS's Panzer Campaigns Normandy.

You'll want to download the Volcano Man art pack for the game to add mood Volcano Mods.

The thing about this game at this scale though, is that it is a MONSTER! With the likelihood of some wild hex densities too.

But it's a solid game after all these years.

Cheers,
Adam.

Thanks, Adam. I'd dismissed that one in my original post but I'll give it another look.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

... I recall "Tora, Tora Tora" was originally to be shot in B&W, but the producers later decided to go w/color.

However, filming in color was so expensive they couldn't hire any A-list actors and settled instead for character actors like Martin Balsam, who looked very unmilitary in dress whites.

Joe,

Hi, I am a movie buff (it's a worse addiction then wargames).

I'm curious, where did you hear this stuff? ... Anyway I am curious about your source.

Be well,

I recall it was a TV documentary -- History or Discovery Channel?

However, I still remember that the doc said the same producers who did "The Longest Day" wanted to give the PH attack the same successful treatment, and according to IMDb, here are the TLD producers:

Produced by
Elmo Williams .... associate producer
Darryl F. Zanuck .... producer

... and the producers for TTT (note the last two names):

Produced by
Richard Fleischer .... producer
Keinosuke Kubo .... associate producer (Japanese episodes)
Otto Lang .... associate producer (Japanese episodes)
Masayuki Takagi .... associate producer (Japanese episodes)
Elmo Williams .... producer
Darryl F. Zanuck .... executive producer (uncredited)

But there's another wrinkle; as Good Guy posted, the filming for TTT was an enormous expense, but then add the cash the producers "wasted" on hiring Akira Kurosawa to direct the Japanese scenes, only to later fire him for attempting to "cast friends and business associates in key roles in the film's Japanese segments as a quid-pro-quo for later funding of future films. Twentieth Century Fox was not amused by this, and finally, the breach became the cause for Kurosawa's dismissal from the project."

re IMDb, "Of all the time and money spent by Akira Kurosawa, less than one minute of the film he shot is in the final release version." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066473/trivia

There was a great deal of $ spent and mis-spent on this film, so there had to be cuts somewhere, and apparently it was in the cast.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

Interestingly, if I am not mistaken, Tora was filmed on FUJIcolor, making it the first movie (or first US movie??) filmed on that material from that company ...

Re IMDb, "This is believed to be the first major Hollywood production to be distributed on Fujicolor release prints." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066473/trivia

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: reg113

... One of the all time great movies.

Yeah, but after learning that DDs played such a key role in securing the Omaha beach-head, I have the same problem watching the end of TLD as I do watching "Midway" after reading Shattered Sword.

[hgilmer3]

Every time I think of The Longest Day a phrase goes through my mind... "Hold until relieved... hold until relieved."  And Sean Connery's character kills me in that movie.  He doesn't have a lot of lines but they are pretty good ones.

[JudgeDredd]

Sean Connery? In The Longest Day???? Really?

[JudgeDredd]

So he wa...Pvt Flannigan apparently!

[MikeBrough]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Sean Connery? In The Longest Day???? Really?

'It takes an Irishman to play the pipes'??? Traitorous swine.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

I'm watching 'The Longest Day' right now - first time in 10 years or so. Is it really black-and-white - my memories of it are all in colour - just shows what an evocative film it is.

Anyways, it's got me thinking about my past life as a boardgamer and some of the D-Day games I played. One that stood out (thought not for most, according to the voting on BoardGameGeek) was Monty's D-Day. This was a game that came with a Strategy and Tactics mag in the 80s. I loved that game as it was at exactly the right level: 1Km hexes and the counters representing battalions and companies.

Is anyone aware of any PC games at the same level? Everything I've seen is at too high a level - Battles in Normandy, HPS's Normandy '44. I don't want to go to the level of individual tanks and platoons, so Steel Panthers is out. A good battalion/company treatment of a single beach would be acceptable.

As someone said already, HPS Normandy '44 is Battalion/Company scale.However, I would try John Tiller's Campaign Series(Platoon level) if you want something lower in scale.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

Every time I think of The Longest Day a phrase goes through my mind... "Hold until relieved... hold until relieved."  And Sean Connery's character kills me in that movie.  He doesn't have a lot of lines but they are pretty good ones.

For me it was Robert Mitchum's line: "There's only two kinds of men on this beach".