Blocking Pearl Harbor entrance

[cantona2]

ORIGINAL: stuman

ORIGINAL: ckammp

ORIGINAL: stuman




Well, I am sure Ben Affleck would have blown up the ship outside of the harbor entrance right after shooting down many Zeros.

He didn't have time; after shooting down all the Zeros, he had to immediatly report to Col. Doolittle on the Hornet, since he was, of course, the premier bomber pilot in the US, as well as the premier fighter pilot![:D]

I also forgot that his greatness spanned two Air Forces and three continents.

quote:

And two enemy airforces as well, now wonder has Lt Gen, later R Adm B.Affleck

[JeffroK]

Have a talk to Dave Bradley, he has put up a "mod" which modifies the pwhex files so as to allow the building of the
Ledo/Burma Road or the ALCAN Hwy.

Should be easy to take away the Panama Canal or remove the access to Pearl Harbor

tm.asp?m=2315246

[Lrfss]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Have a talk to Dave Bradley, he has put up a "mod" which modifies the pwhex files so as to allow the building of the
Ledo/Burma Road or the ALCAN Hwy.

Should be easy to take away the Panama Canal or remove the access to Pearl Harbor

tm.asp?m=2315246

You would have thought this would have been in AE from the start in the original flavor as important to this theatre as it was!!??

[JeffroK]

As for the comments about the ability of the US Armed Forces to stop any attack on Pearl Harbor, the Ward was the only thing that worked as planned.

Maybe a nighttime approach would have got close, what DD Captain would take it upon himself to sink a Passenger Liner without first going up the chain.

Possible, but implausable.

Same goes for the Panama Canal, it could be done, lots and lots of planning though.

[John Lansford]

The entrance to Pearl Harbor was probably one of the most heavily defended ports in the entire world by 1941.  Mines, searchlights, patrol craft, CD guns of all sizes and locations, plus nets and obstructions, all designed to prohibit unwanted entry of any ship.  I doubt that a liner would get anywhere near the entrance before being hailed by a patrolling ship, and if it ignored the hail it would then have to brave the CD guns, escorts and mines.  I don't see it happening.

[fbs]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The entrance to Pearl Harbor was probably one of the most heavily defended ports in the entire world by 1941.  Mines, searchlights, patrol craft, CD guns of all sizes and locations, plus nets and obstructions, all designed to prohibit unwanted entry of any ship.  I doubt that a liner would get anywhere near the entrance before being hailed by a patrolling ship, and if it ignored the hail it would then have to brave the CD guns, escorts and mines.  I don't see it happening.

I don't know about surface ships or coastal guns shooting in peacetime at a liner that, for example, is signalling that is in distress, is flying the Argentinian flag or has a big red cross painted on the side. Any of these would probably buy the 10-20 mins of confusion needed to move in. Command chain didn't work at all in Dec 7, and I seriously doubt that it would have worked in that case -- command chain didn't believe in the reports of the incoming aircraft or the USS Ward's attack.

But you have a great point there about the minefield; from the San Francisco minefield plans, it is clear that it was very extensive and very difficult to avoid, and once the mines are armed I guess they will explode on contact -- thereby avoiding the entire decision making difficulties. With decision making out of the way, that liner would be smoke.

That, of course, provided that the minefield was armed on Dec 7 -- which I have no clue about.


Thanks,
fbs

[JeffroK]

It would never work, the japanese would never attack PH, capture Singapore or Corrigedor etc etc etc.

[Pascal_slith]

Didn't Hector Bywater's book "The Great Pacific War", written in the late 20's or early 30's begin with a Japanese cargo ship loaded with TNT blowing up in the Panama Canal and blocking it for months?

[bradfordkay]

Pascal, yes it did. The difference here is that the Panama Canal is/was designed and operated for civilian shipping whereas Pearl Harbor was a naval port only. If you were to check the nautical charts of Oahu you would see that a civilian ship in distress would still not make for Pearl but rather for the civilian port of Honolulu, as it was a much easier entrance and therefore the ship would reach safety quicker there than by trying to enter into Pearl Harbor.

It's an interesting supposition, but I feel that the USN would have ordered the vessel to stay clear of Pearl and any ship failing to do so would have been very suspect. Exactly what would have happened to one that failed to follow USN orders is a good question, but I am sure that it would not have received an escort or directions through the harbor defenses (minefields, torpedo net).

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Pascal, yes it did. The difference here is that the Panama Canal is/was designed and operated for civilian shipping whereas Pearl Harbor was a naval port only. If you were to check the nautical charts of Oahu you would see that a civilian ship in distress would still not make for Pearl but rather for the civilian port of Honolulu, as it was a much easier entrance and therefore the ship would reach safety quicker there than by trying to enter into Pearl Harbor.

It's an interesting supposition, but I feel that the USN would have ordered the vessel to stay clear of Pearl and any ship failing to do so would have been very suspect. Exactly what would have happened to one that failed to follow USN orders is a good question, but I am sure that it would not have received an escort or directions through the harbor defenses (minefields, torpedo net).

The Japanese pulled all their merchant shipping home during late 1941.